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Topic: C6 High string tuning ?? |
Larry Robertson
From:
Denver, Colorado, USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2012 8:39 pm |
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I've had the high (1st) string my on C6 neck tuned to G with string 2=E and string 3=C for that triad on the top 3 strings along with the RKR lowering string 3 from C to B for the Em/Cmaj7th. I got another D10 (used P/P) last week and the top string is tuned to D which I know is also a common tuning for that string. Also, that guitar has the RKR raising the 3rd string C to C# which of course gives a C# diminished on 2,3,&5. So, before I go switching one of the two guitars to match the other, I thought I'd ask for thoughts from you folks on which you prefer & why. I have already found that having the 1st string a D means the top three strings on C6th have the same whole tones as strings 4,1,&3 on E9, so those single note picking patterns on E9 transfer to C6 easily, but then you lose the triad up high. Thanks in advance for opinions posted. Larry Robertson, Denver
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Website: www.Music2myEars.net
MSA D-10, Carter U12, Fessy SDU-12,Emmons P/P D-10, Emmons P/P U-12,Emmons S-10 ShoBud SuperPro, Lap steel, keyboards, 6-string Guitars.. too many |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Jun 2012 9:06 pm
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I have P5 on a lever, and a pedal that raises BOTH Cs to C#. If I hit them both, and go up 3 frets, strings 2-10 become 1-9 of the high-G C6.
Of course on the Bb6, I have the high 5 and a 6 on top of that. I need to add a lower on my 1st string D to C so I can have the 2 as well.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Larry Robertson
From:
Denver, Colorado, USA
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Posted 14 Jun 2012 6:06 am
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Hey Lane, thanks for the tip. I knew about that minor triad three frets up, but never thought of raising 3 to make it a major. Cool! That 3 string raise on a lever also gives us one more string to use with pedal 8 (boo waa) which I always wanted. Larry
_________________
Website: www.Music2myEars.net
MSA D-10, Carter U12, Fessy SDU-12,Emmons P/P D-10, Emmons P/P U-12,Emmons S-10 ShoBud SuperPro, Lap steel, keyboards, 6-string Guitars.. too many |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 14 Jun 2012 6:47 am
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It being a push-pull, you could get the full A6 with pedals 5,8 and RKR, P5 serves to turn the dominant 7th to a 6th. Assuming you double-foot.
I do on my Zum at will (sometimes adding C to the A and B). The MSA feels odd to do that, as that 10th pedal is so damn close to the volume pedal.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Sid Hudson
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 14 Jun 2012 7:37 am
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I love the D on top for the single note stuff.
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www.lsstrings.com |
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Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 14 Jun 2012 10:34 am
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| I had Bud Carter do the same as Lane's setup. In addition to giving you the "3" note on top, It gives you (with the 5th pedal) the first inverson of the C chord 3 frets up. The second inversion is with the 6th pedal 7 frets up (it's a C7 chord, but I don't pick the "b7" note. This also leaves the top string a D for fast single note runs. |
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Jim Bates
From:
Alvin, Texas, USA
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Posted 14 Jun 2012 2:05 pm
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The other side - I hate the D on top, since I use a lot of chords and I don't mind moving the bar to get single string notes.
Thanx,
Jim |
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
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Posted 14 Jun 2012 4:03 pm
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I fought the D string in favor of the G for 30 years. Then I got a D12 (I only use 11 on the C6 neck), so now I have both. Don't get me wrong...I still love the G on my steel, but now if I had to choose between the two on a 10 string, I would keep the D no question!
It's way more than just useful for fast single note runs. In my opinion, there are also way more chord possibilities! You don't need to "two foot" as much with pedals 5&7 either. If you have the C-C# change in conjunction with pedal 5 that Lane talks about, you can do everything that you can do with the G on top, plus so much more! |
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Bobby Snell
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 15 Jun 2012 4:41 am
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Quite a while ago, I was talking with a local great player, great guy (no names). I said I prefered the high G because it seemed easier to mimic the cool old stuff. He said, "Why would you?"
Uh, because I play in honky tonks with bands that play old stuff? Or new stuff that sounds old...
There's still lots of nice moving interval and chord choices (don't forget to raise the G-G# on P5), if as Jim Bates says you're not afraid to move the bar. It's seemed to me that the tuning was designed around the old straight steel tunings. Just hit a pedal and go to a different tuning...the modern technology of the mid-2oth century!
As part of a double-neck, it makes some sense to me to have a different high string arrangement, too.
One last opinion: High G may not be as good for modern jazz, but it's better for rock and roll.  |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 15 Jun 2012 5:10 am
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| Bobby Snell wrote: |
Quite a while ago, I was talking with a local great player, great guy (no names). I said I prefered the high G because it seemed easier to mimic the cool old stuff. He said, "Why would you?"
Uh, because I play in honky tonks with bands that play old stuff? Or new stuff that sounds old...
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Or because a word/note/lick that has been around says the right thing. By '58, the E9 move of string 4 and 5, then adding the A pedal had been invented. Paul still uses it. Mike Johnston uses it. BECAUSE IT WORKS. Hell, if I could figure them out, there's some Jerry Byrd licks I'd still have use for.
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There's still lots of nice moving interval and chord choices (don't forget to raise the G-G# on P5),
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In the words of Scooby Doo, Rruuhhrr?
Most of us drop G to F# with P5.
EDIT: Duhh. You meant the HIGH G. My bad
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if as Jim Bates says you're not afraid to move the bar. It's seemed to me that the tuning was designed around the old straight steel tunings. Just hit a pedal and go to a different tuning...the modern technology of the mid-2oth century!
As part of a double-neck, it makes some sense to me to have a different high string arrangement, too.
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As a recent convert to Bb6, I like having all three options available: 2,5 and 6 (b7 with B pedal).
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One last opinion: High G may not be as good for modern jazz, but it's better for rock and roll.
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With Perlowin calling E9th "the Mozart tuning" and backing it up, and other cross-type playing happening, I'd offer that the aptitude of any tuning for any genre depends less on the tuning than the player and what s/he sees in it.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
Last edited by Lane Gray on 15 Jun 2012 6:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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John Allison
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2012 5:57 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
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There's still lots of nice moving interval and chord choices (don't forget to raise the G-G# on P5),
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In the words of Scooby Doo, Rruuhhrr?
Most of us drop G to F# with P5.
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In the Copedants section, of the C6's that use the high G, 5 out of 7 raise it to G#...I think I counted right. And that's the way my Mullen was set up. Looks like Bobby uses the raise on the 1, so that makes a sample size of 9 with 77% raising to G#.
Though, in the interest of full disclosure, I recently restrung my C6 and put the D on top (because Herb Steiner has worn down my futile resistance) and I'll be trying to figure it out. On my D10, I've got an E9 copedant that allows a full A6 on the lowest 7 strings, so I still have access to the full major triad up high for western swing stuff.
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John Allison
Allison Stringed Instruments
Austin, Texas
www.allisonguitars.com |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2012 6:24 am
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Here's a quick study I did on the C to C# change on the C6 tuning with a D string on top. For most purposes you can get the high G note back but also gain a lot of nice single string stuff.
http://gregcutshaw.com/Tab/Tab13.html
Greg |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2012 6:29 am
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Well I just went to my 11 string, with both G & D( also with the high G-G# on pedal 5 ), to see what I could and couldn't do with just the D on top(using the C-C# change on a KL).
I was able to find every chord and transitional chord movements and combinations that I get with the G on top, plus many more...that includes rock & roll! 
Not to gloat, but what I couldn't find anywhere with either G or D on their own, were the cool chords I get with both!  |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 15 Jun 2012 6:42 am
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Feel free to share, Rick. 11 and 12 string C6th guys, and Uni players of both stripes, all have both (or their analogs a half-step or two down).
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jim Bates
From:
Alvin, Texas, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2012 11:37 am
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Sounds like it is "Different strokes for different folks" and now Different strings for different things!
This is why I enjoy these threads - many different opinions and experiences.
Thanx,
Jim |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2012 11:46 am
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| Rick Schmidt wrote: |
Well I just went to my 11 string, with both G & D( also with the high G-G# on pedal 5 ), to see what I could and couldn't do with just the D on top(using the C-C# change on a KL).
I was able to find every chord and transitional chord movements and combinations that I get with the G on top, plus many more...that includes rock & roll!
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So ditch the high G, and put a D string in the middle. |
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2012 11:53 am
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That would cause me to have a seizure...and my friend Jim Palenscar, who would have to do the work, wouldn't answer my phone calls anymore.
I do have the middle C to D raise on a pedal, so I can sorta get the same thing. Maybe not as cool, but maybe cooler since it can have movement. |
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Bobby Snell
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 15 Jun 2012 12:00 pm
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Yes, Herb's tried to show me the light, but I resisted his good works.
Larry's original post asked for opinions, so there ya go: I prefer...seems to me...one last opinion...
Having those A-C-E-G plain strings, with their respective traditional pulls, fits my approach (which, admittedly, Tom Pittman once characterized as "caveman"), and allows some different options than the E neck. So I have the high G on both the Emmons and the Williams. |
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John Allison
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2012 4:03 pm
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| Bobby Snell wrote: |
Having those A-C-E-G plain strings, with their respective traditional pulls, fits my approach (which, admittedly, Tom Pittman once characterized as "caveman")... |
They don't call him Bobby "Scrap Iron" Snell for nothing...
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John Allison
Allison Stringed Instruments
Austin, Texas
www.allisonguitars.com |
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Larry Robertson
From:
Denver, Colorado, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2012 6:46 pm
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Well I certainly learned alot so far! I think I'll leave my 2 steels as they are, (1 G & the other D) at least for a while. That way I can play with them both until I get so confused and frustrated by which one I'm playing that I won't be able to play the 1st string without screwing up! Anyway folks, thanks and more comments/opinions to come?? Larry
_________________
Website: www.Music2myEars.net
MSA D-10, Carter U12, Fessy SDU-12,Emmons P/P D-10, Emmons P/P U-12,Emmons S-10 ShoBud SuperPro, Lap steel, keyboards, 6-string Guitars.. too many |
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