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Topic: Can you ever have too many strings? |
Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 26 May 2012 5:14 am |
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I have been playing steel guitar for over 50 years. Started out taking "Hawaiian Guitar" lessons on an old stella spanish guitar with a raised nut. (6 strings)
I graduated to a Fender double neck (8 string)"Stringmaster" and I really began to love those extra strings and chord options.
In the 1970s I started playing PSG E9 (10 strings)
But I saw others with 12 string universal tunings but I thought that just might be too many strings!
After many many years playing in bands, touring, gigging, recording etc. I decided to go "Solo"
I was tired of trying to get others to rehearse/improve/show up on time/etc.
Playing to my own backing tracks gave me flexibility, an enormous repitoire, and less hassle.
I simplified my setup with a 6 string lap steel.
Then longing for more chords went to eight strings.
Then made my own 10 string (adding a full diminished chord) and finally a 12 string with an aug+5 triad on top!
The trouble is that I still want more! I would love to have a low "E" and maybe another option up top!
is 14 strings just crazy?
maybe I should just bite the bullet in setup time and start using my pedal steel again for solo gigs...
Dom 
_________________
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYG9cvwCPKuXpGofziPNieA/feed?activity_view=3 |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 26 May 2012 12:32 pm
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Well Dom, you could wimp out at 14 strings or you could go all the way to 38...
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 26 May 2012 2:27 pm Re: Can you ever have too many strings?
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| Dom Franco wrote: |
is 14 strings just crazy?
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no.
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 27 May 2012 3:58 am
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Hey Chas, I'd love to see some more shots of that triple necker. Is that a ShoBud? It seems to have 'bud fretboards........JH in Va.
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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!! |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 28 May 2012 3:44 pm
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Yes, you can have too many strings. You reach the stage where you can't co-ordinate between right and left hand to make sure that you're plucking the string you're fingering, whether it's a regular string instrument or using a tone bar. And that's not even thinking of the tension that the body has to take. I've seen hammer dulcimers that have collapsed under the weight of the strings.
If you've ever played the lute, with 8 to 12 double courses, you'll know what I mean. Plus, with all those extra strings you need an extra-wide fingerboard, which can be difficult to hold, and difficult to stretch your hand over. With a steel guitar you end up having a long, heavy bar.
As someone who has spent his life building experimental instruments, I've tried all sorts of things, from double courses, to triple course with octaves, to as much as nontuple courses. You would think that with nine closely spaced strings all tuned in unison that the sound would be reinforced, but with 9 strings you have 81 interactions producing nodes which cancel each other out, making for a very dull sound.
A lot of steel guitarists play single notes most of the time. They could probably play much of their repertoir on a three string instrument. Bear in mind the number of virtuosi on the violin, and that only has four strings. |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 28 May 2012 4:17 pm
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Alan, I really do appeciate your experience and insight.
I have had the occasional problem of getting lost in all those strings. I overcame that by using some DR neon colored strings in certain positions.
I agree that if I was only playing single string melodies, or even two part harmonies I would only need 6 or 8 strings. But I have come to love full chords with extensions. (I wear a thumbpick and 3 fingerpicks) so I usually pick at least play 3 notes at a time and often 4.
I play solo gigs to my own background tracks, and sometimes when I get a song request that I have no backing for, I still play my steel and sing.
My goal is to accompany my vocals with full chords on the lap steel sort of like a piano. (Sometimes struming like a guitar as well)
A couple of years ago I started adding strings to the basic A6th tuning, and I am pretty happy with the result.
If I wasn't so picky about playing all the diminished/augmented/7th/9th/etc. intervals I could simplify the chords used. But I love jazz standards and also play piano and guitar, so I know what I am missing.
When playing with a band, or at church with the worship team, I don't need or use all the extended notes. I stay mostly on the standard 8 string A6th tuning.
Dom 
_________________
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYG9cvwCPKuXpGofziPNieA/feed?activity_view=3 |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 28 May 2012 7:54 pm
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I have pedal guitars for pedal things, but most of the time I play 12-string consoles tuned to:
F#
D#
G#
E
C#
B
A
G#
F#
E
C#
B
Which I think of as pedals without the pedals. I have the F# and D# on the top because of my years playing E9 pedal guitars. There are a lot of easily accessible minor chords and I'm used to using minor chords substituting for dominants.
On a 10-string instrument, I leave out the high G# and D#. |
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 29 May 2012 8:24 am
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chas - just curious as to the choice of C# vs where normally you'd find a D
i have on one of my 8st steels a "Morrell-lite" tuning:
D E F# G# B C# E F#
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 29 May 2012 10:01 am
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Dom: I follow what you're saying. I was brought up playing folk music on guitar, banjo, mandolin, etc., and the folk style is to play full chords, with various different finger styles, playing the bass with your thumb and the melody on the upper strings, while holding down the chords. This transfers to the Dobro, which is a folk instrument, especially when you're just singing and playing to one instrument.
When one transfers from the Dobro to the lap steel, and then to the pedal steel, one is tempted to bring in one's decades of playing folk style, and I do this more than I want to. The fact is that the pedal steel, though it looks like a folk instrument, is actually played more like a lead electric guitar. You don't need to play rhythm and bass too: leave that to the rest of the band. As soon as you electrify the instrument and add all that sustain, it ceases to be just a background instrument, and has all the volume power of any instrument you can come up with. If you choose to play bass on the steel guitar you're going to overwhelm the bass player, and if you choose to play rhythm you can overwhelm the rhythm guitarist. Yes, you can turn the volume down, but then you disappear into the background. Maybe this is what is needed for some recordings: a steel guitar providing the equivalent of an entire string section.
What you have to remember is that, in a steel guitar, you have the potential to overwhelm the rest of the band. You don't need to play all the chords, just play what is needed. That having been said, I love the effect of those thick 6th chords in C6 tuning running up and down the fretboard, as anyone playing the numbers on my Steel Guitar Network page (below) will notice.  |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 29 May 2012 11:00 am
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Jerome, On all of my pedal guitars, I have the C# instead of the D and with RKR I pull it up to D at the same time as I flat D# to D, so RKR, without having to think about it, is I7.
The C# in that position makes for "friendly" scale runs, that have a 6th feel, between "home fret" and 2 frets down.
For chording, bottom grip, B,E,G# is I, move up a string, same grip, C#,F#,A is a II chord, and up 2 frets is III. Then back down to "home" up a string to E,A,C#_ IV, up 2 frets to V. Back to "home" F#,C#,E is VI and as for the VII chord, I took a vow never to play one. |
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John Limbach
From:
Billings, Montana, USA
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Posted 29 May 2012 12:23 pm
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| Alan Brookes wrote: |
| Yes, you can have too many strings. |
And for me, that number appears to be six some days! |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Jon A. Ross
From:
not actually FROM Maine...
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Posted 30 May 2012 9:24 pm
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On one neck?
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