what think ye?

Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Question: does the split on string 6 combined with the B pedal which allows one to get an E minor on strings 4, 5 and 6 (E, B & G) (open), do away with the reason for the C pedal which gives one an Emin on the same strings on fret 10. OK, maybe if not all the reason, some of the reason?

Jack Aldrich · From: Washington, USA

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

There are a lot of "licks" that use the E to F# raise of the C pedal. For example, this Lloyd Green intro from "Whiskey Bent and Hell Bound" (that I just tabbed out this morning) didn't sound right to me played any other way:

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I guess it all depends on how you mentally approach the neck. Ahead of only 9, 8F an 6A, that minor is the 2nd least-used minor on the neck for me, excluding ones that I haven't thought of, while BC is the third most-used.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I also rarely use the minor achieved with the split. There is no substitute for the B&C pedal combo in my book.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

bOb, regarding the B+C+D position you refer to: Is your "D" the lever that lowers E strings?
_________________
Zum Encore, Zum Stage One, Fender 2000, Harlan Bros., Multi-Kord,

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

For quite a few of my early years with PSG I barely touched the C pedal, really only for the "bouncing on and off B+C" licks, which I felt were kind of cheesy and cliched and tried to avoid using, and often speculated about removing it and putting something else in its place.

Nowadays I use the C pedal for various things, but almost never for the minor chord. For that I use 1/2 step lowers on 3 & 6 (same result as the split, but my guitars don't have tunable splits--I know there's a way using an extra rod, but I haven't bothered with it). I like the C pedal for the harmonized melody possibilities on strings 3 & 4 and especially 4 & 6 using the B and C pedals and the E raises and lowers.

Incidentally, there's a thread right now in the Steel On the Web section about the "Whiskey Bent" intro.
(I don't think it's Lloyd on the Hank Jr. Did he record it elsewhere?)

Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

Thanks for the clarification. I used to call that lever the D lever too until my teacher told me to start calling the lever that lowers Es the D lever! Oh Well

_________________
Zum Encore, Zum Stage One, Fender 2000, Harlan Bros., Multi-Kord,

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I've found no generally accepted standard for naming knee levers, so I call them by their notes: D#, F, C#, A#
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Foot pedals can be operated faster than levers, and for that reason I wouldn't think of eliminating the C-pedal! I use the minor change it gives, as well, because it seens to "flow" better than just dropping 3 & 6. (Of course, I'm an old-timey player, and a hacker as well.)

Aside from that, I'd guess that 98% of the players who do this stuff for a living have kept the C-pedal. Everything else is icing on the cake, but A,B,&C are the essential "cake", as it were. Mr. Green

Of course, if you only play schmaltzy slow stuff, you can probably live with the 4th raise on a lever, and forgo the C-pedal. Razz

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Oops. My F# lever drops 6, not raise 4.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Friends, thank you very much for your replies..it is nice to have both options available..I'm keeping both. Thanks again.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Of course keep it. If you have a cool use for it, that's enough for me.
Like Sinkler says, it's not the note, but how you got it and what you do with it.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

John Shadid · From: Oklahoma City, OK

I find the 4th string whole step raise pretty essential. You can imply and substitute other chords/voicings with the BC combo as well. Steelguitar.com has a video for beginners that shows how to play every chord in the major scale in the first position that might be of interest to you.
_________________
Johnny Up PSG Lessons @
http://www.youtube.com/user/johnnyupok

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Wow. Someone actually remembers what I say. Thanks Lane. That movement of the 1 to a 2m by slowly actuating the B&C pedals is absolutely beautiful. I used to raise 4 to F# on a lever early in my career but still had the C pedal. I could never get the same movement and sound of the B&C pedals by using the A&B pedals with the lever. It is easier to "milk" the pedals than it is to milk pedals and a lever. A lot of the emotion I associate with the B&C pedals are derived from the ability to get microtones (not sure what else to call them) in between the open and full pedal position. Makes my guitar player howl out loud when I pull that stuff.

Also, when I started out I had the 4th string raise to F# on a lever so I didn't have to let off the A&B pedals to get that sound of sliding the 5th tone to a 6th by moving up 2 frets (actually only strings 4 & 5). I soon found that it didn't sound as good as the slide up and back down, so I eventually got rid of the change.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

On my main PSG I raise both E strings to F and F# with the LKL, and lower both G# strings to F# on RKL ... sometimes at the same time for the effect Smile

Alway miss that E to F# raise lever on my other steels, but it is a more complex operation to add that change on them since I don't use, or like, 'feel-stop'.

The C pedal is still there, but it doesn't get used much. I always go for the lever.

John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Yeah, that would work.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video

Ned McIntosh · From: New South Wales, Australia

Try playing John Hughey's intro to "Look At Us" without the C-pedal!
_________________
The steel guitar is a hard mistress. She will obsess you, bemuse and bewitch you. She will dash your hopes on what seems to be whim, only to tease you into renewing the relationship once more so she can do it to you all over again...and yet, if you somehow manage to touch her in that certain magic way, she will yield up a sound which has so much soul, raw emotion and heartfelt depth to it that she will pierce you to the very core of your being.

Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

John, the Bb and G notes can also be played on fret three, on strings 6 and 4, using the split on string 6 to give the Bb note...thereby avoiding switching the foot to the C pedal

Franklin · Posted 19 May 2012 4:40 am **Re: what think ye?**

Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

The C pedal is a must have standard pedal because of its chordal as well as single note options. Whether its playing electric guitar or steel each chord and scale must be easily found in multiple positions over the entire fretboard.<<

Paul, Thanks for your post...I will always keep the C pedal but I also like the 6th string split..I never had that change on my Sho-Bud or Mullen Steels but Bill put it on my Williams.

Franklin · Posted 19 May 2012 6:32 am

Brad,

Good for you.....Its always great to find new ways to voice familiar sounds.
I believe the secret to finding the perfect pedal setup while growing as a musician is to always see new discoveries as an additional option and not as something new that replaces something older.....

I raise me Eb to E but that does not and should not eliminate the E lowered to Eb.......Being proficient at this thing means finding many different ways and positions to achieve the chords and scales we love to play.

Paul

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I played without the C pedal for many years (I raised E to F# on LKV), but I'm back to it now. I think it's best to start with the 3 pedals and 3 levers of the standard tuning, and add to them as needed for the music that you like best.

See http://b0b.com/infoedu/e9theory.htm.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video

Forum Index > Pedal Steel	Goto page 1, 2 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic