Progressions as Intros and Fills

Rick Myrland · From: New Orleans

I think I had a eureka moment; it may be common knowledge to many of you but a long-in-coming breakthrough for me. I'm posting this to make sure I'm thinking correctly and maybe help someone else at my playing level. After watching many Mickey Adams and Paul Sutherland YouTube videos and hundreds of hours reading posts from this site, one of Mickey's videos recently struck me. He always explains in terms of a "1-5-2" intro or something similar. So I viewed one without my beloved Mullen in front of me and watched carefully, THINKING about what he was playing rather than simply copying. What was always there, but I was failing to think it through because I was more focused on the mechanics of it all, was that our intros/fills/endings/riffs/turnarounds are nothing more than some inversion of a chord within the progression of the key in which the song is being played; no?

So you're going essentially from one chord to the next, taking advantage of chords not necessarily being played by the rest of the band during the measure, and by changing inversions or string groupings adding color and style, thereby developing intros/fills/etc; no?

A Paul Sutherland video (use of the B&C pedals) opened doors for me when he said you could use all of the chords within the key even if the band is playing the I-IV-V, so taking advantage of minors/etc. to add fills. So really, Mickey and Paul are taking the steel down the same path; no?

So if all this is true, then I guess my question part of this comes back to something that's been discussed on the forum before my eureka moment, and that is if you're adding your own fills or developing an intro to fit the song, how do you know which of the "other" four chords to play over, or the order of them? Is this trial and error? Trying different things to see what works? And if I'm trying to figure out a new intro (say, "Where I Come From" by Montgomery Gentry), I'll be able to find it somewhere in the chords of the key in which we (the band) is doing the song? I know these seem like simple questions which have no-so-simple answers, but I guess I'm looking for some rules of thumb, understanding there are probably a thousand exceptions to some of the rules. But, it's a place to start and a huge breakthrough for me, and hopefully something that will get me to the next level -- and away from reliance on tab.
_________________
Mullen G2; Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb; Goodrich L-120

Bo Legg · Posted 7 May 2012 12:21 pm

You mean adlib over an expanded chord progession.

Mike Schwartzman · From: Maryland, USA

Ford Cole · From: Texas

Seems like one would sharp the G since the last interval is a half step in the major scale. no?

Mike Schwartzman · From: Maryland, USA

Yup... pardon me G# is correct. Mistake edited to show correct 7th
_________________
Emmons Push Pull, BMI, Session 400, Home of the Slimcaster Tele.

Rick Myrland · From: New Orleans

Actually that helps a lot, even though you used the "S" word; somehow I knew someone would use the word "scale." But here's a hang up: you have in the A scale a C# and B, but those are minor chords. Obviously there's no "minor notes," so is it just one of those things a player needs to know and apply -- that your minors are the ii, iii, and vi chords, and therefore the ii, iii and vi notes in the scale are going to me minor chords?

Also, it seems you always want to end one the I chord, which leads into vocals and where the rest of the band is?
_________________
Mullen G2; Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb; Goodrich L-120

Mike Schwartzman · From: Maryland, USA

You got it Rick... not the notes, but in the chords of the harmonic A scale or any other key, the ii, the iii, and the vi are played as minors unless otherwise indicated. The single notes in the scale remain the same (in our example)simply B and C#.

Check it out: On your guitar: play an A chord on fret #5 w/ strings 345... then hit 345 with your B&C. That's a minor ii (B minor) Go up 2 frets to fret #7 same strings with B&C. That's a minor iii (C# minor). Go up to fret #10 and hit the same strings with no pedals. That's a IV chord (D major). Hum along as you go: "doe, ray, me, etc. and you'll hear it. Sounds just like a single note scale only using chords.

Then using Bo's chart again...while the band is going from E to A in the intro, you are using the harmonic A scale V, IV, iii, ii (E to D to C#m to Bm) and "meeting the band" back on the I (A).
_________________
Emmons Push Pull, BMI, Session 400, Home of the Slimcaster Tele.

Mickey Adams · From: Bandera Texas

Its a really simple concept I believe has been thought of as something complex..In a "first lesson I would simply teach a major scale in the key of C...
If you look at the notes that form a major triad within the scale...C.E.G (1,3,5)
and then play all 3 of then next tones in the scale, 2,4,6...C moves to D, E moves to F and G moves to A...These notes form a minor triad...Dminor....The "2 chord...Follow this same pattern and you will build a diatonic chord path that will follow this patter M m m M M m 0 (dim) M...
Cmajor, Dminor Eminor Fmajor, Gmajor Aminor Bdim C...1-7..then the root C
Regardless of the key a song is in....These relationships are constant distances from each other,,,..
_________________
ARTIST RELATIONS: MSA GUITARS
2017 MSA LEGEND XL D10, S10, Studio Pro S12 EXE9
Mullen G2, Rittenberry S10, Infinity D10, Zumsteel 8+9
Anderson, Buscarino, Fender, Roman Guitars, Sarno Octal, Revelation Preamps, BJS BARS, Lots of Blackface Fenders!

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

A great example of this use of the 3m -2m as substitutes for a "more normal" 5 to 4 change can be heard in the 2nd half of John Hughey's brilliant intro to "Look at Us" except he's using the 11th and 9th fret minor chord made with the 4th string lower instead of the B & C pedal position.

Not to nitpick, but it's the "harmonized" scale. (Harmonic usually refers to a type of minor scale.) It gets it's name because it's built by harmonizing the single note major scale with other notes from the major scale a third interval apart, as Mickey describes above.
There are many, many ways to use this scale in intros, fills, etc. One great one is to use the 7 chord (minor flat 5) as a substitute for the 5- ex: 13th fret with 4th string raised as a sub for any D major or D7 chords in the key of G.
Endless fun here!
_________________
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com

Bo Legg · Posted 8 May 2012 8:23 am

We all catch on real quick to what part of the song we play for an intro and it pretty well just comes out and smacks you in the face that it is also the turnaround for the lead and the same turn around sang by the singer telling you to end it.
So there is not much need to apply theory in this case since after just a few country song intros under our belts we realize we can use those same intros that fall within the 5511 or 1511 etc for those songs we’ve never heard.
But if you enjoy making up complicated “watch this” intros dive into your theory.

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Well, Bo, if you've "never heard" the song, pulling out a 5511 over a 1215 might not be the purtiest thing heard on the bandstand.
One of many great advantages to knowing some theory is hearing the song as it goes down, and knowing you have great stuff to play all over the fretboard that can fit a number of progressions.
Being a contributing member to a musical ensemble is a lot more than just plugging in stock phrases.
_________________
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com

Bo Legg · Posted 8 May 2012 3:11 pm

I didn’t mean to suggest that I would play a 5511 over every intro no matter what the band is playing. I'm saying you can play the same melody of one 5511 over every 5511 and etc..
Mark I never intended for my thread do be a contradiction to anything you posted or to imply that using theory is a bad thing.
I was reflecting on Stuart’s transcription of my playing the very same 5511 I posted above and got a real sour look from the singer when I played it.
The problem was that that the (third bar) G7 > G#7 > A sounded so great to me that I used a variation of it again in the last bar of the intro which brought attention to me and clashed with the vocal lead in line.
Which taught me not to get too busy or fancy in the last bar of an intro and don’t upstage the singer or leave the band in some doubt as to the progression at any point in the intro.
The G7 is really an E7b9 and the G#7 is really an A dim. Oh well who's counting.

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Different approaches for sure when you're playing over an intro where the band knows the song and we don't, where the band doesn't really know the song and we do, and where the Singer knows the song and the bass player doesn't...
Wink

_________________
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: