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Topic: Avoiding bent rodding, and a capo question |
Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 1 May 2012 3:17 pm |
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I didn't want to clutter up that other thread on my work in progress (where I hope I'll get finish advice), so I'll ask in another thread.
So I've got an S-12 I'm in the middle of working on, and it'll end up Bb6 with at least 5 knees. P1 will have an analog of the E9 1st and second string raise, and I want to add pulls to 10, 11 and 12 taking the C to A, the Eb to E and the G to A (every now and then I use that currently for some baritone guitar licks, and I wanna keep 'em). Since I don't like the idea of bending all that stainless to go around the LKV tower (it's in the way of 11 and 12), is it either goofy or inadvisable to have P1 pull to a downstream "slave" shaft, past the left knee forest, so I can keep pulls straight?
Also I like that sound of the slightly slacker strings of Bb6, but I'm used to doing a lot of stuff open on some songs, and I don't see the folks dropping keys to Eb or Ab just to suit the goofball in the Sit-down Squad. I know how to use a piece of rod stock as a capo, but the guitar has a purty lacquered neck that I don't wish to screw up. Are there any No-Mar capos for pedal steel? I can't help but think the clamping action of my Beard reso capo would have interesting effects on changer action.
I know dropping gauges and raising the tuning would solve it, but I don't wanna.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 1 May 2012 3:56 pm
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| Since I don't like the idea of bending all that stainless to go around the LKV tower (it's in the way of 11 and 12), is it either goofy or inadvisable to have P1 pull to a downstream "slave" shaft, past the left knee forest, so I can keep pulls straight? |
Keeping the rods all precisely straight is a fettish - not a necessity. Keep the bends very short, and at a 45-degree angle, and there shouldn't be a problem, as you shouldn't have to bend more than 2 or 3 rods. Knee lever supports could even be drilled or slotted to let the rods go through them, instead of around them. If you have round crossrods (like the old MSA's), you don't even need "towers" (supports) for levers, as they can be mounted directly on the crossrods, and either work directly on that rod, or on another (though a slave puller).
For the capo, glue or weld a piece of rod to a 1" wide piece of steel, and then glue some flannel or felt on the bottom so it will not scratch the fretbooard when you slide it under the strings. Just remember to keep the felt clean (covered in a bag or box) when you're not using the capo.
I can't help with the string "slack feel" problem, as that's a function of scale length and string guaging, coupled with the desired tuning (pitch), and one of those 3 has to change to make any difference.  |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 1 May 2012 4:25 pm
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Thanks for the felt-on-slab approach. I'd not thought of that.
I know it's not a necessity to keep rods straight, my D-10 MSA had one pullrod with 6 bends from the factory.
I just have no bending jig, neither have I bothered to make one. I tried freehand bending, both bare-handed and with pliers, and the results disappointed me, they looked ugly. While nobody else would see any ugly spaghetti under there, I'D KNOW (and would cringe every time I'd set up or tear down). If I don't use a slave shaft, I'll make a bending jig, I know it ain't hard, just an hour or two in the garage
Vertical and *KL need towers, and if I add a clustered knee, it'd probably be an LKOR, using a Zum lever, with the reversal happening on the tower. I'm gonna review David Wright's copedent and see which knee, if any, I'm gonna put there.
I LOVE John Alexander's idea of the half-stop taking Ds to E with a half-stop at Eb. John, I'm stealing it.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Bill Moore
From:
Manchester, Michigan
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Posted 1 May 2012 5:19 pm
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| Lane, I've had the best luck bending stainless rod by heating the bending area red hot with a propane torch before bending. You can just heat a small area, then make a neat, smooth, even bend. There will be a little discoloration, but you can polish if off with some steel wool or very fine sandpaper. No need for a bending jig of any kind. Wear gloves. |
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Darvin Willhoite
From:
Roxton, Tx. USA
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Posted 1 May 2012 6:09 pm
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How's this for a cluttered underneath?
This is a custom built steel with a narrow body, this was the only way I could get all of the changes I wanted on it. I use inside and outside RKL's so it's almost always necessary to bend the rods.
_________________
Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, a restored MSA Classic SS, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Also a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored Rose S10, named the "Blue Bird". Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also have a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks, and a showroom condition Sho-Bud Super Pro. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 2 May 2012 2:56 pm
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Hey Lane if you have more than one axe I would suggest just hangin' with a standard Bb6th rig for your S12.
Or keep the Bb6th changes you like but tune to B6 to accomodate your open stuff.
fwiw, I think I am the only one who uses the E9th pedals on my friend Christopher Woitachs Bb6th steel.
That Bb6th tuning is meant for playing with Horn sections and orchestras, not E9th twang0matics.
My opinion is based on having been playing S12U for 30+ years and having tuned to Bb6/Eb9 S12U in recent years.
My reason for going to Bb/Eb was wanting to be able to play all the Open-chords in E9 on the first fret.
So now when I go to an Open E chord for example, I just slide right down to it.
All open note licks would need to be re-calculated... But luckily I don't play much open stuff. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 2 May 2012 5:47 pm
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Pete, David Wright uses his on country enough that he has the F lever AND the C pedal (I'm on the fence about C pedal vs. clustered knee going to F, using the A pedal for the 5th string).
I'm going Uni (I prefer Unified to Universal, myself) because I'm that goofball who'll jump from one neck to the other mid-solo because my thoughts took me that way.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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John Alexander
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Posted 2 May 2012 11:22 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| I LOVE John Alexander's idea of the half-stop taking Ds to E with a half-stop at Eb. John, I'm stealing it. |
Great - I'll be interested to hear how it works out for you - I hope as well as it has for me.
My reason for trying the "F lever" on a half stop in the first place was that I was already addicted to all the standard Bb6 knee lever changes and didn't want to give up any one of them. It was a freebie, and made the Bb6 even more adaptable to the many country gigs I was doing at the time. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 3 May 2012 2:03 am
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Do you run a C pedal?
I plan on raising 1 and 3 to Eb and G with P1, I use that on E9 too much.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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John Alexander
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Posted 3 May 2012 10:20 am
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| No, I never got beyond thinking about adding a C pedal. How many pedals will your new guitar have? |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 3 May 2012 11:12 am
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| I put pull rods out-of-parallel to avoid obstacles, but I don't like to bend them. You never know how much the bend will straighten under different conditions (e.g. temperature) so that can cause intonation problems. |
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