My Gibson PSG

Ricky Newman · From: Ontario, Canada

Hello everyone,

I've been checking in on the forum from time to time since buying my MSA D-10 Classic from a member a few years ago. Thank you all for posting so many resources. The Forum has been a huge learning aid for me.

I just picked up a new guitar from a reputable dealer in Toronto and I have a bit of a mystery on my hands .

My ax: Gibson D-8, It's beautifully made, and the sustain is so good that if I hit a chord on it and go out to dinner, it'll still be ringing when I get home. Unamplified. And every machined part is impeccably precise.

Here's the thing: Gibson never seems to have mass produced a pedal steel that looked like this. The Mechanism looks rather like this one from the top: http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=114303&highlight=gibson+rare

The Pedals are attached to a series of pipes of concentric diameters catilevered to metal rods which activate the changer fingers. There are tensioning springs running under the body.

The Pickups and Tuning Heads are on the same (picking) side.

So what do I have here? Valuation in unimportant unless your hands are strong enough to pry my cold dead ones off of it. It was last seen at a "music shop in New York." Would Don Helms know? Does it have anything to do with Paul Bigsby or Ted McCarty?
I'm really at a loss as to what it could be, but man oh man does it ever ROAR!

I've been toying with copedent possibilities for this guitar . The mechanism is completely universal to raise notes, but cannot drop them. Any Suggestions. I play Dobro well, E9th pretty alright (I'd be lost without my knee levers. A modified C6 has been working nicely on the lower neck of this guitar, but I'm playing it without pedals right now.

Well, I'll consider myself introduced to you all. Any help identifying this guitar would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Ricky

richard burton · From: Britain

Ricky,
To make your post
a more manageable
width, edit it
by putting the
URL's for the
photos on top
of each other,
not side by side.
example

[img]http://imperialpub.com/avarice,JPG[/img]
[img]http://imperialpub.com/GPSG1,JPG[/img]
[img]http://imperialpub.com/GPSG2,JPG[/img]
[img]http://imperialpub.com/pedalmech,JPG[/img]

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

This was about the second or third generation of Gibson pedal steels... out of an effort that started during the last years of WWII and produced their first PSG just at the end of it. It is said that Alvino Rey was the first big name player to play one of the early generations. I don't know if yours still has the raise-AND-lower mechanism, as soon Gibson had to move to a simpler raise-OR-lower mechanism after loosing a patent related law suite to the Harlin Bros. who had a similar but much cheaper model commercialized under the name MultiKord. Some will argue that Harlin was first, others (me included) will are arguing that the were only first at patenting it.

If my memory serves me well, fellow forumite All Gerschen [sp?], acquired a very similar model to yours a couple of years ago.
Also fellow forumite Al Marcus played one of the early generations in the 40's. He is still actively posting here, so I would not be surprised he's soon share his knowledge here with us about these guitars.

You may want to research more about Alvino Rey and even Speedy West... bottom line all the early PSG players BEFORE E9th, which used the pedals more to generate multiple chord tunings. Most, like Alvino Rey, created a lot of swing and jazz chords.

I have always wondered what these deals sound like today.

... J-D.

Rick Batey · Posted 13 Jan 2008 7:22 am

It’s a Gibson EH-820 Electraharp. Honduras mahogany body, aluminium frame. Model manufactured between 1960 and 1966.

Original catalog description, courtesy of Michael Lee Allen:

NEW EIGHT PEDAL ELECTRAHARP
The ultimate in pedal steel guitars
Features: double or single eight string neck... fast fingertip action... eight pedals, centrally located, with feather-touch action, activate both necks. Positive tone changes... adjustable stops lower or raise any string 1 1/2 tones... individual string rollers at nut and bridge. Each pedal can be set to raise or lower any one or more of the eight strings or all simultaneously, within the strings’ practical working range. Powerful humbucking pickup with Varitone switch, reversible tone control, and audio cut-off switch for special effects. May be used with stereo, monaural, or multiple amplifiers. New Gibson counterbalanced construction. 16 3/4” wide, 38” long, 5 1/8” thick, 27 1/2” high, 22 1/2” scale, 36 frets on each neck.

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

hmmm...

"... with feather-touch action...", huh?
Isn't that what we've all been after? Very Happy

1960 to 1966... incredible! It looks so 1940-ish. Imagine in '65 Emmons came out with what would set the standard in looks (and some argue in tone too) for most modern steel guitars still today! But sadly lacking the feather-touch action Wink

.

Great info, btw! ... J-D. Whoa!

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

I'd love to just see and hear the darn thing!
Where in Ontario are you Ricky? I'm in London so if I can come and see you, I would love to!
msg, email or pm me please/thank you
Bent

Luke Morell · From: Ramsey Illinois, USA Hometown of Tex Williams

Looks heavy.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

I wonder how that mahogany body sounds. We are so used to maple.

The best sounding 6 string in my collection is a Les Paul type guitar carved from a single piece of mahogany. It looks very plain and unassuming, but it sounds better than all the fancy ones with the flamed maple and pretty colors.

_________________
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Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Yes, heavy and very bulky. Mechanically, it's inferior to most other pedal steels, and it was decades behind the times in terms of style and practicality even when it was new. It was Gibson's (futile) last effort to make a pedal steel. The nice tone comes from the huge wood body.

They're very "retro" and cool to some, due to their styling. Since it appears in very good shape, I wouldn't go butchering it up to add knee levers.

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

here's a document that Fo'Bro' Al Marcus put up quite a few moons back on this beast

Scott Swartz · From: St. Louis, MO

Mike P, A mahogany steel sounds quite a bit different (I own one), has a less bright attack, similar to comparing a SG type guitar to a Telecaster. Actually a closer comparison would be an SG to a Carvin neck through or all maple guitar, if you have ever played one of those.
_________________
Scott Swartz
Steeltronics - Steel Guitar Pickups
www.steeltronics.com

Ricky Newman · From: Ontario, Canada

You all are absolutely unbelievable...what a resource! I'd spent hours on the phone and internet trying to find hide or hair of this thing both before and after I bought it. Within 12 hours of posting, there's a scanned brochure, history, names to contact...

Bent: I'm in Toronto and rarely venture south, but if you're ever in the area drop me a line.

As to weight and bulkiness: It's no heavier than my MSA D-10, which is to say that it's no heaver than my Ford Focus either.

Any idea for all raise 8-string copedents?

Thanks again to everyone who replied,
Ricky

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

http://picturehost.net/b0b/EH-820.gif

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

just goes to show you what your own intelligence and fact finding may do to overcome one company's add campaign!

Al Gershen · From: Grants Pass, OR, USA * R.I.P.

Hi group:

Here's some email I had this week with Ricky Newman about his newly acquired Gibson Electraharp EH-820:

------Ricky's Original Email------

On Jan 13, 2008 9:13 PM, Richard Newman <ricksnewman> wrote:

Subject: Gibson EH-820

Hi Al,

I just got one and found you on online steelers. any tips or copedent suggestions for this stunning, stunning guitar.

Regards,
Ricky

------My Reply to Ricky------

From: aldg01 <aldg01>
To: Richard Newman <ricksnewman>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 2:06:52 AM
Subject: (S, 1/13, RN) Re: Gibson EH-820

Hi Richard Newman:

It's very nice to hear from another Gibson EH-820 Electraharp
owner...I only know of one other and you may have bought your guitar from him!

I believe his name was Jim Luckey...I may have his last name spelled wrong.

Shortly before I bought mine on eBay at the end of 1999, we were in email communication about me buying his guitar. He could never come up with a selling price...he thought the guitar was worth thousands of dollars.

My guitar was a "fixer-upper" and I've come to the conclusion that "I can't fix it.." In fact, I've discussed this with my wife and she wants me to sell the guitar.

When this guitar came out in the early 1960s, I was playing a Harlin Brother's Multi-Kord single neck 6 string, 6 pedal instrument. I was very impressed with the catalog listing for this instrument and thought that it took the Multi-Kord and the Electraharp to a new level of playing with it pedals on the front (instead of in the corner), its stereo output and the passive tone changer.

What I didn't realize was that the instrument had some major design problems: First, it was not banked; that is, the front and back necks are the same level. This make it extremely difficult to play the front neck. Finally, and this is very subjective: I've described this guitar as a "mechanical engineer's nightmare" in terms of it design.

I was never able to find an owners manual for the instrument. I'm not even sure if Gibson even printed one.

My instrument is missing some of the linkage between the pedals and the place where the pedal rods attach to the pedal board. Also, on the underside of the instrument at the pedal changer, there's a small plastic piece that's broken on one of the necks that has little springs in it...I'm not even sure what its for?

Aside from all this, there's been a little enjoyment from the instrument. I believe it's tone is very different from most other pedal steels, especially when you use the passive tone switch. I can't remember the trade name for this switch but it's the same one that Gibson used on some of their jazz guitars of the early 1960s. It consists of a fixed coil that switches between various sized capacitors, thereby changing the tuned resonant frequency and phase of the guitar's output signal. In a sense, it's a precursor to some of the digital effects that we take for granted today.

I hope your instrument is in better condition then my guitar and that you get some real enjoyment from it. As to tunings, my only advice would be to keep it simple. I don't know if you could put an E-9th type tuning on the guitar for two reasons: It may not be possible to
smoothly rock back and forth off the A-B pedals; and the instrument doesn't support knee levers. So maybe put a C-6th and E-9th [Edit: I meant E-13th] tuning on it, as if it were a non-pedal guitar and think of the pedals a tuning modifiers...like C to Cmin, etc.

I have some old photos of my Electraharp on my Charter website that you can look at. The URL is:

http://webpages.charter.net/aldg/Aldgs%20music/Gear/Gibson%20EH-820%20Electraharp/

If you have a website, please upload some photos of your guitar or email them to me.

Good luck with your guitar and I hope to hear from you soon.

Regards,
Al Gershen
Grants Pass, OR
aldg01@gmail.com

------Rickey's Reply to me-----

On Jan 13, 2008 11:45 PM, Richard Newman <ricksnewman> wrote:

Hi Al,

Thanks for the blazingly quick reply. I posted some photos here:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=125304

And Found a Brochure here:
http://www.vintageguitars.org.uk/gib62p18.php

Despite the concensus that Gibson never made a good pedal steel, I am REALLY enjoying this one. I have an MSA D-10 (pictured) as my main player, but watching folk's eyes pop out when they first see this thing is giving me an awful lot of satisfation. And, while I haven't been using the pedals much - just not sure how to set them up yet - I think the guitar sounds just phenomenal. I mean really, really good.

I think I will just tune it open and put in a few raises and drops here and there as I find I want them. I like your idea of just dropping the 3rds. Maybe raising the 6ths a ST would work for Jazz and Blues playing.

God knows I wouldn't have paid $1500 in 1962$ (the list price according to that ad, and about what my dad paid for his MG-B that year), but it's a heck of a piece of history and I feel honoured to be making it sing.

Regards,
Ricky

------

I have some additional comments:

Rickey said, The mechanism is completely universal to raise notes, but cannot drop them.

I don't believe this is correct. The Gibson catalog says the instrument will raise and lower each string 1 1/2 tones. On my guitar, there's two (2) levers for each string, that when depressed by the adjustable screws will raise or lower the base tuning. (Each of the metal horizontal bars above the changer have 16 drilled holes that hold the tuning screws...2 holes per string to raise and lower the tuning.)

I lost contact with Jim Luckey...I can't locate my copies of email correspondence that I had with him many years ago. If anyone one the Steel Guitar Forum know about him, please post that information under this thread.

I finally remembered the multi-switch control that's on the Gibson Electraharp EH-820...Gibson called it a "Varitone Switch."

There's a nice article about it on the Gibson website at the URL:

http://www.gibson.com/magazines/amplifier/1999/1/ax.html

Rickey Newman said:

And every machined part is impeccably precise.

It's an interesting instrument and I stand by my statement in my above email to Rickey...the guitar is a mechanical engineer's nightmare...impeccably precise or not!

Finally, there are visual differences in the four (4) Gibson Electraharp EH-820 that I've seen: the one pictured in the Gibson catalog, Rickey Newman's guitar, Jim Luckey's guitar and my guitar. From my research it appears that Gibson sold only about 30 of these guitars over a 6 or 7 year period and apparently made small changes over the model life.

I hope I've added to the dialog about the Gibson Electraharp EH-820.
_________________
Regards,
Al Gershen
Grants Pass, Oregon. USA
Fender 1000 (1957) &
Gibson Electraharp EH-820 [FOR SALE]

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

That guitar matches the antique mahogany furniture in our bedroom.

Ricky Newman · From: Ontario, Canada

Yeah Al, it can raise and lower (sort of) and yeah, I have come to grips with the limitations of this thing vs. my MSA.

Still, with unending thanks to Al Perkins (and Winnie Winston [PBUH] who communicated his eight string copedent to me) I'm FINALLY starting to make exactly the sounds I was dreaming of when I started playing steel guitar (I think it was four, maybe five days ago).

With all due respect to that particular scene, it isn't exactly Toby Keith (or the current Nashville sound, in general) that has the power to inspire this particular young steeler, living all way up here in Canada.

And Lee, it matches my furniture, too, but I'm twenty-five and single, so that's really a huge plus.

Fred Amendola · From: Lancaster, Pa.

I saw one of these in Lockport NY in the mid-70s.
A older guy named Bob Mael had a music store, always had his Electraharp set up and played it well.

Chuck Hayes · From: Missouri, USA

I know where there may be another one of these for sale if anyone is interested

Daniel McKee · From: Corinth Mississippi

i cant say i have heard one of these anyone know where i could hear one.

Douglas Mael · From: Langhorne, Pennsylvania, USA

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

The reason they weren't mass produced is because it looks like they would take 5 years to build.

Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

I don't know squat about the Gibson, but I do know that the Yamaha YC30 in the background of that pic is probably the coolest combo organ ever made.
I've got one myself, and it trumps the Vox Continental that I bought in '65.

Billy Tonnesen · From: R.I.P., Buena Park, California

Looks like a good "Museum" instrument. Wouldn't want to haul it around !
_________________
Sacramento Western Swing Society Hall of Fame, 1992

Duane Keiper · From: Niagara Falls, New York

I saw one of these for sale on craigslist last year in Lockport, New York. I don't think that it sold and the ad ran out.
I remeber the ad said this guitar was played years ago by a local musician. If I can be of any help just let me know, Lockport is just a half hour drive for me and I love to drive.

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