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Topic: Fender Stringmaster vs. Custom Steel |
Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2012 3:27 pm |
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I was wondering where I can get info about the Custom vs. the Stringmaster . Was the Custom available in three different scales like the Stringmaster? I have a S8 Deluxe (short scale) with plans on getting a D8 or T8, and have seen Customs that have a significantly lower price than the Stringmasters. People have mentioned lack of sustain in the Customs from shorter scale length, but make for easier bar slants. Any comments would be great. Thanks in advance.
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--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 31 Mar 2012 4:04 pm
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Another big difference is the pickup(s). Customs have Fender's earlier style of PU, trapezoid shape, with the strings going through the pickup. Stringmasters have the standard string-over PUs. Personally, I never liked the trapezoid PUs because they sometimes get in the way of "right hand palm blocking"... for me anyway. To my ear, the trapezoid PUs have a more cutting tone than the later pickups (Stringmaster).
The best known example of the Fender Custom sound is Santo & Johnny's original Sleep Walk. Santo's guitar cuts like knife on that recording. S & J's first album (with Sleep Walk on it) shows a T-8 Stringmaster on the cover, but that's not the guitar he played on Sleep Walk. That picture was taken several months after the recording was done.
Another great example of the Trapezoid bite would be anything by Kayton Roberts. Go to Youtube and check out his live video of St Louis Blues. Kayton plays an early '50s D-8 Fender. He's been playing that old D-8 for nearly 60 years!
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2012 4:27 pm
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
Another big difference is the pickup(s)... Personally, I never liked the trapezoid PUs because they sometimes get in the way of "right hand palm blocking"... for me anyway. To my ear, the trapezoid PUs have a more cutting tone than the later pickups (Stringmaster).
The best known example of the Fender Custom sound is Santo & Johnny's original Sleep Walk. Santo's guitar cuts like knife on that recording...Another great example of the Trapezoid bite would be anything by Kayton Roberts... Kayton plays an early '50s D-8 Fender. He's never owned or played any other steel guitar. Nearly 60 years on the same guitar! Gearheads take note. |
Thanks, Doug. Didn't even think about the cover getting in the way - now that I think of it my English Electric cover gets in the way - I take it off and try to remember to put it back on when I put the guitar away. Now I see why guitars are sold without pickup covers and pickguards - lots of times they're removed for better playability vs. collectibleity [sp] and disappear.
As far as 60 years on the same guitar, so true - we let our urge for technology take over - sometimes a 1/4" plug is high tech enough!
Does anyone make a replacement pickup for the Custom?
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 31 Mar 2012 4:44 pm
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| Quote: |
| Now I see why guitars are sold without pickup covers and pickguards - lots of times they're removed for better playability vs. collectibleity [sp] and disappear. |
True. I have an original 1968 telecaster with the "ash tray" bridge cover, and that cover is directly in the way... when dampening the strings near the bridge. It's maddening. It's a cool looking cover, but Fender learned a long time ago that most players remove the cover and store it, so Fender stopped making them for teles years ago.
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My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2012 5:27 pm
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Nice pic, Michael.
Doug, the cover is a pain, but might help with shielding.
I'd like to know some of the technical info about the Custom pickups - I have pickups custom built for my archtops - all I would need is a model of the shape I want and I can get them made. Are they single pole? If so, I wonder how a humbucker would sound? This thread is getting interesting 
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 31 Mar 2012 5:55 pm
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Carl, the older style Fender Trap. PU is a unique animal. The strings go through the pickup. I don't know the technical details, but I know that there is a cover that goes over the top of the pickup, and I believe the magnets are on both ends of the pickup. I'm not sure about the bobbin and the windings, etc, but other forum members may know more about this.
There is a very common problem with these pickups. The material that coats the inside of the opening sometimes dries out and sags, and buzzes on the strings. There are a lot of threads about this on this forum and on the "old" steel forum. Members have posted topics about repairing these PUs.
As far as swapping out these trap. PUs for other PUs... I would say, don't even think about it! It would destroy the integrity of the guitar. If the pickups are working at all I would leave them alone and just live with them. Or have them rewound. Lollar or Fralin could do the work.
_________________
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Last edited by Doug Beaumier on 31 Mar 2012 5:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2012 5:58 pm
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| ... S & J's first album (with Sleep Walk on it) shows a T-8 Stringmaster on the cover, but that's not the guitar he played on Sleep Walk. ... |
According to the Seymour Duncan site the Stringmaster pickup was designed for Johnny Farina. There's some puzzling information - Sleep Walk was a hit in 1959 - did it come out in 1959? The stringmaster came out in 1953, so S & J used their old steel to record the song and showed the SM on the cover. Maybe they weren't happy with the sound. I heard somewhere that Joe Pass recorded his Virtuoso album with a classical guitar, but you always see his pic with some jazz box - good for PR , I guess.
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 31 Mar 2012 6:11 pm
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| Quote: |
| According to the Seymour Duncan site the Stringmaster pickup was designed for Johnny Farina. |
Johnny Farina was only 12 years old the first year the Stringmaster came out, 1953. He was unknown in the music world until 1959. Maybe Fender asked for some input from him regarding the pickups in the early 1960s. BTW Johnny was the guitar player in the duo. Santo played steel, and he was (is) four years older than Johnny.
The Custom was made from the late '40s until the mid-50s. The Stringmaster first appeared in 1953. There was some 'overlap' for three or four years. Fender made and sold both versions... the Custom T-8 (and the Dual Pro D-8 ) with trap. PU and the Stringmaster. According to Vintage Guitar Magazine the older style was available until 1957. And Jody Carver has stated here on the forum that both versions were available for a while. Leo Fender wasted nothing... all stock was used up!  
_________________
My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel
Last edited by Doug Beaumier on 31 Mar 2012 6:18 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2012 7:09 pm
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I agree about all that - the web is opinion and conjecture for the most part. The thing is that the parts to build get up there in cost - I can fabricate bridges, plates, nuts, but then there's finishing the parts, too. OTOH $2200 for a T8 SM equates to a lot of raw materials, but I don't want to re invent the wheel, either. I like Remington's design and haven't looked too much into others. But as it goes with my guitar design, "Don't worry about what the other builders are doing." People pick builders for many reasons. BUT the sad truth is "If you walked by a trash can and saw a Mesrobian, a Fender , and a Gibson, and could only pick two out of the barrel,..." Buyers are too focused on brand. A famous builder I know had worked on a Gibson for a customer and modified it to a 7 string, and he changed the headstock to read "Gisbon" or was tempted to, I can't remember exactly. The customer loved the 7 string "Gisbon"!
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2012 6:09 am
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| Did the Customs originally come out with the "boxcar" pickups? |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2012 6:46 am
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| Michael Lee Allen wrote: |
Carl...
I did a quick look at your website and if it'll make you feel better, if it was ME walking by that garbage can I wouldn't leave your guitar in it unless the other two were so clean and original and rare that they'd be worth much more on resale. your guitars look good and are priced fair, hard to believe how little upcharge there is for an 18 inch body, a seven string, or a left-handed version. And a choice of four scale lengths...
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Thanks, Michael, my guitars prefer plush lined cans; BTW, the reason they're so low is that I haven't updated the site. 
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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James Hartman
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2012 6:47 am
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| Something wonderful in the tone of those trapezoid pickups, I think. There is the right hand access to pickin' near the bridge issue, but that's just the nature of any string-thru pickup. If that's the only way to get that tone, I'll live with it. Same for Rick Horseshoes. |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2012 7:08 am
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The tone is nice in both. But I'd have to try one to see if the pickup is in the way or not - I guess in lower postions it wouldn't be as big of a deal as in the upper position where things get pretty squeaky, thanks to the rule of 18, or 17.817, or ?? 
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2012 9:33 am
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As far as recording, if I did, I haven't seen the royalties.  My guitars are out there, but I'm a one man shop; I do upright bass repair and guitar repair, as well as build. They change hands, one ended up in Nebraska, there's one in Sweden and one in Greece - how about that - I'm known worldwide, but I'm based out of Boston area. I'm considering building a console or lap steel, bt want to do more R&D on it - lots of great stuff out there now built by folks who practically came out of the womb with fingerpicks on, if you know what I mean. 
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 1 Apr 2012 9:36 am
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Rick Aiello has an old Custom with one boxcar and one trap pickup.
I've owned about 4 or 5 Stringmasters and 2 Customs--a D8 and a T-8. I loved the 24" Stringmaster and one old short scale Deluxe I owned, but I have to say, I prefer a healthy Custom over a Stringmaster any day. I say healthy because, as some of you know, when the pickup bobbin shrinks inside, the overtones it creates makes it almost unplayable. My D8 had those problems and I sold it. The T8 I have is perfect, but it may be a matter of time before I'll need to consult with Mr. Lollar..
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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James Hartman
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2012 10:10 am
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| Quote: |
| ...but it may be a matter of time before I'll need to consult with Mr. Lollar.. |
I seem to recall hearing that Jason wasn't doing repairs/rewinds anymore (unfortunately) - too busy. In any case, any of you guys have recommendations for others you'd trust to repair an unusual vintage pickup like that and get it right? |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2012 11:38 am
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I think the one on the clip has the knob on the end plate, maybe different year manufacture?
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Jon A. Ross
From:
not actually FROM Maine...
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Posted 1 Apr 2012 12:10 pm
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| Thanks for starting this thread, Carl; it answers some of my questions, too. |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2012 12:56 pm
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Had an old album with Khatchig Kazarian playing duduk - he's a Juilliard grad! back to the Fenders - I just opened my S8 up and lubed the tuners and cleaned 'er up - ready for Monday night open mike
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Jon A. Ross
From:
not actually FROM Maine...
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Posted 1 Apr 2012 1:20 pm
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| Was there a date under the tray, Carl. I never had it open. |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2012 1:27 pm
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There was a stamped number , nothing penciled in, though. Didn't write it down - sorry. Looks like it had a new volume pot - no biggy - sounds great!
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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John Bushouse
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Posted 1 Apr 2012 3:55 pm
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| James Hartman wrote: |
| Quote: |
| ...but it may be a matter of time before I'll need to consult with Mr. Lollar.. |
I seem to recall hearing that Jason wasn't doing repairs/rewinds anymore (unfortunately) - too busy. In any case, any of you guys have recommendations for others you'd trust to repair an unusual vintage pickup like that and get it right? |
I had Lindy Fralin rewind a couple Rick horseshoes for me, but ended up going with Tom Brantley of Mojotone to rewind one of my boxcars. Tom used to be the main re-winder at Lindy Fralin's.
http://www.mojotone.com/support/kb-pickups/Pickup-Rewinds
Here are the before and after pics:
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