Volume pedal questions

Jeff Metz Jr. · From: York, Pennsylvania, USA

. I have only ever used my Ernie Ball Jr. Volume pedal with my pedal steel. It is a passive pedal. I am just wondering what I am missing out on with other more popular pedals ie: Telonics, goodrich, shobud, emmons) I did notice the pot size is a lot smaller on the Ernie ball than on my teachers Goodrich. Do the other pedals have better tone/design/feel or what?
Thanks
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Mullen G2 SD10 , Lil Izzy Buffer, Goodrich 120 volume pedal, Boss DD-7, Peterson Strobo flip, Peavey Nashville 112

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

I found that the Goodrich feels sturdier and has a better angle for my ankle; I don't have to bend the ankle so much when backing off the volume. Also my EB had jacks in the front which is a bit of an issue, though not a deal breaker. The EB was easier to work on (more accessible pot and string).

Dan

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

Yes, you are missing a lot of your guitar's tone w/ the Ernie Ball VP.

Long story short: consider only 2 volume pedals. Hilton or Telonics. IMHO, The rest do not come close.

Bobby Snell · From: Austin, Texas

There may be some high-end signal loss from the 250K potentiometer in the Ernie Ball pedal. Do you have your treble all the way up on the amp? If not, you're not missing a thing.

Ernie Ball VP's are well made and inexpensive, and readily available at most music stores.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I think an impedance matcher and a pot pedal are perfectly adequate, but the passive pedals do suck some tone. Not just highs, but definition. Black Box, Match Box, Izzy. All will do wonders in front of a pot pedal.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

I don't detect too much tone suck in Ralph Mooney's sound.

I've gone through a Hilton pedal, Goodrich LDR, Black Box and Revelation pre-amp. Now back to a Goodrich 120 pot pedal with no buffer amp. With the proper amp settings just about any tone can be gotten out of any setup or pedal. I do think the more vintage steel tone is easier to achieve with a passive pedal and no preamp. Neither setup is "better". They are just different and you will likely go through both passive and active setups before deciding on one or the other as suiting you tonal preference.

Also the human ear's frequency response differs as a function of sound level and I think the pot pedal compensates nicely for this.

Greg

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Ahh yes, pot pedals - the scourge of bad sounding players everywhere! Just listen to some of the terrible-sounding stuff that was done with pot pedals: "I'll Come Running", "Rainy Day Woman", "Together Again", "Motel Time Again", "Hello Trouble", "Christine's Tune", the "Black Album"..."Charlie Pride Live at Panther Hall"???

No, you wouldn't want to wind up sounding sound like any of those, would you?

Laughing

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

I would never Poopoo anyones VP pedal, amp or pile of electronic effects... If it twists your pickle and makes you happy, have at it. But Donny has a very valid point and I haven't gotten to where I can use the stuff I have yet, an amp, Pot VP and steel.

Ernie Ball makes a good pot pedal(the big older ones), it has a 500K pot that doesn't have to be soldered in, is easy to work on and you can get parts for it. It will stand up in a bar fight or a fall off the back of your pickup truck. You can pick them up sometimes for under $50 bucks and they will last a lifetime. Personally, I like the roll off. When I back it down and play a little comp, I don't want them screeching highs cutting into what the singer is trying to do. And hey, I ain't got much, but it's part of my "tone" and playing personality.

And yes, I've had and used a Hilton and heard the Telonics. But it's Ernie Ball for me, the price is right.

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

The Ernie Ball Junior does not provide anything like a full throw of the pot, the Ernie ball standard model does somewhat better in this regard, but with either pedal you must choose between full on or full off, but not both.

Carson Leighton · From: N.B. Canada

Some steel players I have talked to think the pot. pedal delivers a sweeter sound than the non-pot. pedal.....I'd like to hear some thoughts on this...Carson

Jim Bob Sedgwick · From: Clinton, Missouri USA

Electronic pedals (IMO) can be somewhat sterile sounding. I found the cure with my Hilton pedal. There is a tone control on the bottom of the pedal. Cut the highs back about 1/4. Now, if your sound is too bassy, add some highs back on the amp. The clarity is still there but more of the sound of a pot pedal, without the tonal change. I'm happy with sound now. Smile

John Faulkinbury · From: Topeka, Kansas

This subject has come up at a good time for me as I was just thinking about getting another volume pedal. (quite confusing) with all the different models out now. I primarily play lap steel. I look forward to hearing all the comments. Thanks....John

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

John, it comes down to a matter of taste. Old-school active pedals colored the sound more than passive pedals (the Winston/Keith book discourages active pedals such as Morley).
Passive pedals color the tone more than the modern active pedals.
Impedance matching/reducing buffers such as Lil' Izzy, Matchbox, Freeloader and Black Box counter that effect.
Many use pot pedals and get great tone.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

John Faulkinbury · From: Topeka, Kansas

Thank you Lane for the quick response. One of the pedals that I was thinking about was a Morley plus. but having never used one I wasn't sure if I would be happy with it. But getting back to the original op. I have often wondered if I was missing out on anything with a higher end pedal. I have been using an Ernie Ball but have had several issues with the string breaking. Thanks again for any help. John

Brett Lanier · From: Madison, TN

I've owned active goodrich and hilton pedals, and in the end I prefer a pot pedal. Of the different passive pedals the Emmons style is my favorite by far. You can raise and lower the heel end of the pedal making it ergonomically comfortable for just about anybody.

IME, the biggest problem with the Ernie ball pedals(for pedal steelers) is that when I push it all the way forward, my right knee goes up, hitting the rear apron.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

John, where in Kansas? I live in Topeka, and often sit in with a band in western Kansas (usually gigging along I-70 between Goodland and Russell)
If you're curious about the higher end pedals, buy one from Tom Bradshaw, who will take it back if you don't like it.
Personally, I'm happy with my sound using Lil' Izzy (actually Izzy Plus) and a Goodrich. If I planned to throw money at that part of my chain, I'd keep the Goodrich and replace Izzy with a Sarno Black Box.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

John Faulkinbury · From: Topeka, Kansas

Hi Lane, Just north of Auburn. I'm curious about the Lil' Izzy or (the Sarno Black Box). I don't know anything about them. I would like to know about the following.
1. How they work
2. Where they are placed in reference to your volume pedal and your effects.
3. If you would need one of these for a passive volume pedal. I'm not sure that I want to spend that much on a high end VP (and xtra's) if I can get the same results with a lower cost pedal.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I live about 85th and Fairlawn, neighbor (I say Topeka because nobody knows where Wakarusa is)!! You can come over to my house a week from Sunday and A/B a Lil' Izzy versus plain. the Izzy plugs into the guitar. It goes, obviously, between guitar and pedal.
It'll make a huge difference in clarity and string separation.
They only, AFAIK, make sense on a passive pedal (electronics guys like Brad and the cat in San Francisco whose name I've forgotten can correct me if I'm wrong) since the stuff happening in the Hilton and Telonics pedal don't have the same effect on tone.
I believe the Izzy is a gain-neutral buffer amp (the Izzy Plus comes with gain if you want that), and I believe that's what the Black Box and Sarno Freeloader are. The Black Box also includes a tube instead of being solid state.
They take the high impedance signal from the pickup and send a low-Z signal on. This cleans it up muchly.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Joseph Meditz · From: Sierra Vista, AZ

I have a Goodrich LDR II that I bought for fear of pot failure. Then today I noticed some distortion when I picked hard. OK. It wasn't the pedal. It was a loose connection somewhere. However, in the trouble shooting process I swapped in a Goodrich L120. I was shocked at how much better the pot pedal sounded. Simply put, it sounds the way I think a steel guitar ought to sound. So, I'm going to get an extra L120 with a couple of extra pots. The sound, the lack of a wall wart, the simplicity and the low profile make it a joy to use.

Lastly, I just have to say that I can't get myself to buy a Telonics no matter how much folks gush about them. I just want a volume pot that controls volume. That's all. Do players actually use multiple tapers and eagerly install firmware upgrades via USB? Are they waiting for an iPhone App for it? Don't answer that because there probably already is one. Rolling Eyes

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I had Keith Hilton build me an old-style one with the volume and tone and cutoff controls, specifically because what it does is let me use guitar-level effects immediately after the volume pedal. With a passive pedal, I always had to have another whole box just to attenuate the volume. Having an active volume pedal set at a lower volume isn't the same as running through a pot pedal 1/2 cocked.

In another post Brad Sarno talks about the importance of the first thing that sees your pickup and that interaction with your playing. Surely there have been some historical combinations of cord -> passive volume pedal -> cord -> amplifier preamp that have been great-sounding - but to be repeatable, you have to then always be using the same thing. I gotta great recipe for roast mastodon.... Laughing

Using the Hilton gives me just one thing that I can fiddle with, that can always be tricked into spitting up an adequate sort of signal. Using long chains of stuff that all has to be absolutely perfect, just to be OK - seems sort of youthful, I guess. (insert creaky cranky emoticon)

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Bill Howard · From: Indiana, USA

Jerry Kippola · From: UP Michigan, USA

I always thought, maybe old school, but the tone comes 90% from the player, and the rest from the rig.

Teddy Lloyd · From: Virginia, USA

Donny you left one thing out.All those songs where done with Ohmite and later AB pots not Clairstat are Dumblot

john widgren · From: Wilton CT

All my passive pedals have Vintage NOS AB pots made in USA (very rare, very expensive, and very great).

I also have a Telonics FP-100

I love em all, but the Telonics is BY FAR the best.

Yes, I'm a Telonics dealer, and would love to sell you one. If you want the absolute best, get one.... from me, or if you think I'm blowing smoke, get one from someone else, that's fine with me. But get one. You will be amazed at the difference.

Regards

JW
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