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Topic: Playing Backup, Looking For The Best Instructional Material |
Doug Burling
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2012 7:48 am |
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| I'm convinced I need either one on one instruction or good instructional material to learn how to play backup. I've tried figuring it out on my own with recordings, but I'm not getting anywhere. I'm sure the best would be one on one with a good teacher, but so far I haven't been able to find anyone in the Cincinnati, Ohio area. |
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James Hartman
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2012 8:15 am
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I'm sure other folks here have more specific and more extensive advice to offer. I'm mostly self-taught but came to it with a solid background as a jazz guitarist.
Two thoughts: lessons at home via Skype (I know these are available), and also you might take a look at the Cindy Cashdollar vids. My recollection is there's at least some coverage of backup playing on those. |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 21 Mar 2012 10:11 am
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You might try a GOOD guitar teacher if there are no steel players in your area, ESPECIALLY a guitar player who is conversant in the style of music you want to play.
Play along with records. Make sure you know where all the chords are without effort and that your intonation is good moving from one to another at the speed of the tune. Get a band-in-the-box type computer program for practice (if you have an iphone/ipad/ipod get iRealB.) Find a band with players a bit more advanced than you are (but not by too much!)
Think of it as a good opportunity for you to develop your own unique style 
_________________
Primitive Utility Steel |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 21 Mar 2012 10:15 am
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When you sit down and listen to recordings, take notes of what you're hearing (eg, plays after each vocal phrase, echoes the vocal, plays chords, plays melodies). It really helps to decipher what you are hearing away from your instrument, so that you can sit down at your instrument and tackle it already knowing what you are going for. I think that is one of my best strengths as a musician--my ability to really listen and assess what is going on. That can be developed.
If you would name one of two examples that you really like, I will try to walk you through it.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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James Quillian
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Mar 2012 3:37 pm
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| For an instrument that is as popular as the lap steel there is amazingly little tab floating around. If you could get a hold of the tab of any old C&W song, that includes the backup parts and learn the whole thing, the concept would all fall in place. To get the idea, all you need is a few generic backup licks and then figure out where to put them. IMO any music idea is easier to learn in context. |
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Kekoa Blanchet
From:
Kaua'i
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Posted 21 Mar 2012 4:09 pm
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There's a book by DeWitt Scott entitled "Back-Up Behind the Singer", with tabs of C6 lap steel guitar backup for five songs, along with a CD (a band and singer playing the five songs, with and without the steel guitar track). Good examples of backup, along the lines of what James Quillian just suggested. Scotty's Music http://scottysmusic.com/ as well as the Steel Guitar Forum used to sell it. I don't see it on either website right now, but maybe a call to Scotty's could find you a copy.
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Kekoa Blanchet
From:
Kaua'i
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Posted 22 Mar 2012 11:57 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
When you sit down and listen to recordings, take notes of what you're hearing (eg, plays after each vocal phrase, echoes the vocal, plays chords, plays melodies). It really helps to decipher what you are hearing away from your instrument, so that you can sit down at your instrument and tackle it already knowing what you are going for. I think that is one of my best strengths as a musician--my ability to really listen and assess what is going on. That can be developed.
If you would name one of two examples that you really like, I will try to walk you through it. |
Mike, this sounds like a great topic to follow up your tutorial series on improvisation. Your step-by-step approach and the clarity of your instruction are a tremendous gift to all of us who are trying to add to our skill set. Some of my favorite backup playing of all time is you behind The Moonlighters. It would be terrific to get some insight on your approach to this subject. |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 22 Mar 2012 1:48 pm
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I'd recommend listening to good accompanists on steel, guitar, piano and even string sections. Like Mike said, really listen. Are they comping chords? Playing counter melodies? Harmonized lines" Single note fills? Echoing the vocal? Pushing the tune along with rhythmic hits? My opinion: you'll learn more from borrowing from good players than following some exercises in a book. A few examples:
Ralph Mooney
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1_QU32J4YA
Counter melodies, vocal echos
Sinatra (Billy May chart)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmQq6yLe2ww
Classic big band - rhythmic phrases in the cracks between vocal lines, changing registers
Jerry Byrd with Marty Robbins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_oaEw0p3js
Diatonic, harmonized chord runs, rhythmic full chord flourishes and glissandos
Ray Charles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thls_tMuFkc
Single note obligsatos (flute) One strum per measure (guitar) chromatic walks upward (Ray's Piano)
Brook Benton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGiceab-jqQ
Diatonic harmonized slides & simple melodic licks (guitar), sustain chords
(organ) single note obligatos (harmonica)
There are zillions of good examples. Steal ideas from all instruments. But, if it's really not working for you then a teacher could help - maybe even a piano player? |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 23 Mar 2012 7:03 am
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| Kekoa Blanchet wrote: |
Mike, this sounds like a great topic to follow up your tutorial series on improvisation. Your step-by-step approach and the clarity of your instruction are a tremendous gift to all of us who are trying to add to our skill set. Some of my favorite backup playing of all time is you behind The Moonlighters. It would be terrific to get some insight on your approach to this subject. |
Kekoa, thanks for the compliment. I have always loved that role, whether on guitar or steel. Anyone who knows me knows that I have always created my own parts on the fly--even when playing cover songs. I play strictly by intuition and in the moment, which makes it incredibly difficult to describe to someone else how to do it. After the fact, yes, I can talk about it, but as far as an approach, it's not something I think about.
I can, however, listen to someone else's recording and describe what is going on.
I would have to say that, to be the best musician one can be, there are 3 things you need to do:
1. Learn as much as you can about music (melody (including counterpoint), harmony and rhythm)
2. Listen to as much music as you can, deeply examining the role of each instrument. I would often go kicks where I would listen to nothing but the bass parts, or maybe even string parts, over and over, just studying them, sometimes taking notes.
3. Play often with other musicians
All of those things will help you become a better musician. After that, you can begin to play instinctively and, hopefully, very musically.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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James Hartman
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2012 7:20 am
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Moving well beyond the initial query in this thread, but good info and suggestions on an important topic.
Following Mike Neer and Andy Volk's excellent suggestions, the more ambitious players who're looking for a deeper knowledge base might want to check out "How To Comp" by Hal Crook. It presents a well-conceived and comprehensive approach to accompaniment from the perspective of "creating my own parts on the fly". Caution: it's pretty heavy lifting - not a book for beginners. |
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Eric Dunst
From:
Brooklyn, New York, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2012 7:26 am
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Another great example is Cindy Cashdollar's playing with Redd Volkkeart (or anyone for that matter). Here's a clip. There are more out there from this DVD/show (Redd Volkeart - Tele Twang)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY8AFtlAykA |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 23 Mar 2012 7:37 am
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| Great call, Eric. Cindy's comping is very rich, rhythmically varied. and more than many steel players, she has a set of "radar ears" to know how to perfectly compliment what another soloist or singer is doing at any given time and play the perfect obligato, comp or driving rhythm steel part. |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 23 Mar 2012 9:28 am The fine art of playing back-up...........
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Playing back-up/fills with a vocalist is much more technical than some might think.
Back-up is truly played from the heart....even more so than straight solo playing.
There is no comparison between Emmons, Green, Chalker and Byrd........ Their individual personalities are expressed via their playing/style.
You cannot intermix their back-up with one another.
It starts with the players' ears. When YOU listen to a great tune with steel in the mix, do you REALLY, Really, really LISTEN.......or do you merely enjoy the music for what it is?
To get to the nuts and bolts of truly good/acceptable back-up, one must LISTEN!
For a real good look-see into exceptional back-up, one might consider giving a listen to some of the tunes on the JERRY BYRD Fan Club site. Whether you like his style or not, there's a lot to be learned there and it's FREE!
Then give some listening to Ray Pennington and Buddy Emmons; Gary Carpenter with Curtis Potter.......
If you don't get the pix, you may require some very serious one-on-one instruction.
No one ever said it was going to be easy. |
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Brian Hunter
From:
Indianapolis
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 25 Mar 2012 12:22 pm Got my curiosity up!
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On Hanks' second tune included here....
the steel player does a chorus somewhat like JERRY BYRD.......
The dynamic bite of that little FENDER guitar is not that far from the sound of a Ric Bakelite.....
What amp is he using? Anybody know for sure? |
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Brian Hunter
From:
Indianapolis
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Posted 25 Mar 2012 6:35 pm
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Not sure, Ray but when I saw him live it appeared he was playing through a silver face twin. However, I suspect he has a basement full of old stuff.
_________________
Brian |
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Brian Hunter
From:
Indianapolis
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Posted 25 Mar 2012 6:36 pm
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Also, he credits Kayton Roberts with teaching him everything he knows about playing steel guitar.
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Brian |
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Brian Hunter
From:
Indianapolis
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Posted 25 Mar 2012 6:38 pm
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Looks like a Deluxe behind him maybe.
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Brian |
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Billy Tonnesen
From:
R.I.P., Buena Park, California
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Posted 25 Mar 2012 7:36 pm
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If you are backing up GOOD SINGER, be sure that you are playing exactly on Key. If you get in the "cracks" it can really screw up the Singer.
On the other hand, if it is a Singer who is not always on Key, sometimes with a substained chord or two you can help them to stay on Key. Music has many challenges. |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 25 Mar 2012 10:10 pm
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The question of "how to backup" is not limited to steel guitar.
In general there is a big gap in knowlege out there among many musicians, no matter what instrument they play.
I learned the most about this topic during long all night recording studio sessions. (Studio time is usually cheaper at night, and using the 2nd engineer who works for less pay)
1. Don't step on the vocals (No fills that conflict with the melody)
2. Wait til the end of the vocal phrase, and play some complimentary notes that tie in to the next line.
3. You dont need full chords all the time, in fact it can muddy up the mix.
4. Find a register (fret position) that is higher or lower than the piano and guitar, so as not to clash with either.
5. I agree with previous posts that it must come from the heart. You need to "feel" the song and play the licks that seem like they were intended by the songwriter, and somehow are "inspired" not just thrown in as an afterthought.
I hope this helps;
Dom
_________________
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYG9cvwCPKuXpGofziPNieA/feed?activity_view=3 |
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James Hartman
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2012 5:35 am
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Another good example comes to mind, and I think illustrates some of Mr. Franco's suggestions, is Jeremy Wakefield's playing on Wayne Hancock's A-town Blues album.
His playing is inventive, varied in texture, fairly busy, but not obtrusive. Also, the way he and guitarist Dave Biller interact is outstanding - both guys have chops to burn, but don't overplay. |
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Vince Luke
From:
Iowa, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2012 7:21 pm "one on one instruction or good instructional materials
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Hi,
There's good instructional material called How to Play Back Up by Jimmy Heffernan available through his website. It's dobro-centric, but could be useful even if dobro's not your thing (depending on what instrument you're trying to learn and what style and how much you're able to generalize the information).
A more efficient route may be one on one lessons via the internet or Skype, since there are no steel teachers in your region. The Steel Guitar Forum links page includes a list of instruction & instructors, some of whom say they offer remote lessons.
Best,
Vince |
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