Roland Cube 80XL

Landon Roberson · From: Church Hill, Tennessee, USA

Anyone noticing Intermodulation distortion from their Roland Cube 80XL. I have noticed in the last week I get this when I hit 2 or more strings at the same time it shows up more on the lower strings than the higher ones. When I hit one string at a time they ring clear but 2 or more I get Intermodulation distortion. Any suggestions on how to fix it. I am playing a GFI Ultra sd-10 with Lloyd Green strings.
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My Rig: GFI Ultra SD-10, Goodrich Volume Pedal, Roland 80XL amp.

Chuck Blake · From: West Virginia, USA

Can you email me a sound file. I can compare my 80xl and GFI to your sound file. I can't really wrap my arms around the sound you are describing.

Thanks
Chuck

Billy Murdoch · From: Glasgow, Scotland, U.K.

Landon
I have no problems with My Cube 80xl
I use only the JC channel for steel.The other channel has higher gain and distortion will be present if the gain is too high.
Which channel/setting do You use?
Billy

Landon Roberson · From: Church Hill, Tennessee, USA

The Intermodulation distortion is not coming from my amp I figured out tonight that it is coming from my steel guitar. I tried several amps and got the same sound and I even hear it when the guitar is not plugged in. Any suggestions as to what may be causing it?
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My Rig: GFI Ultra SD-10, Goodrich Volume Pedal, Roland 80XL amp.

Billy Murdoch · From: Glasgow, Scotland, U.K.

That certainly is a strange one Landon.
Since You say that You can hear the distortion when You play unplugged it would suggest a tuning issue where the beats are overbearing.
Try tuning your E strings to pitch using a tuner and then play an e string with another,for example play string four and three together and if You hear the distortion then turn the third string tuning key a little,either up or down and see if it goes away.
If this works then You can play other strings along with the E note and check them out.
Let us know how You get on
Billy

Robert Parent · From: Gillette, WY

Bad strings???? Possibly a burr on something in the string path.

Robert

Karsten Gorkow · From: Germany

Hey, sorry that I come back to this issue, but I was looking around once in a while for such a posting, but used "interference" as the keyword ... I have the same problem with my Cube 80 and my Emmons. Single notes no problem, but when it comes to two strings together especially on the upper part of the neck (e.g. 15th fret), I get a bad deep third tone that drives me nuts. I can also hear it on my MusicMan, an old Mesa Boogie style amp I also own, my Marshall JVM and also on an Orange Thunder a friend borrowed me for guitar, but it's the worst on the Cube. I can't tell if my Emmons produces this tone without being amplified, but I will check tonight. I can say, that it is getting better if I reduce 800Hz on my GE-7 but it never goes away completely. Landon, did you have success by trying a different tuning method?

Pete Nicholls · From: Macon, Georgia, USA

Sounds to me like the output of the guitar may be overdriving your volume pedal input. Have you tried running straight from the guitar to the amp and see if the distortion is still there?
_________________
Justice The Judge SD-10, 2007
Justice Pro Lite SD-10, 2011
Quilter Steelaire
Quilter Labs Tone Block 202 Head
Roland Cube 80-XL
American Stratocaster - Yamaha Bass Guitar
1 Fender Telecaster Nashville Edition
Ham Call: N4BHB

Frank Montmarquet · From: The North Coast, New York, USA

This is your problem?

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=232879&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25

I have not been able to completely solve it. Here is what I know:

It is worse with my Roland Cube 80XL, but it also happens on my Nashville 400 and with a Digitech RP-155 with headphones. Also happens on a Crate.

I have a humbucker with a 3 way switch, switching to single coil greatly reduces it, but not totally. The RP-155 also reduces it. Playing in single coil mode with the RP-155 reduces it to almost gone, but still there above 17 fret.

I have played through other amps and it is less of a problem, other players have played through my cube with their guitars and can hear it.

I though these might be Tartini tones. (google it) But I can hear Tartini tones and this is not them. (I play with a drone tone sometimes and clearly hear tartini tones with certain pitches) Happens at different pitch combinations than the tartini tones. It is most prominent on minor 3rds, tartini tones are not prominent on m3rds.

I now think it is always present to some degree but certain combinations of equipment make it worse. Impedance of pickups and amps matter. I have a freeloader on order, if it makes a difference than I am right, if not then will need to do more experimentation.

Karsten Gorkow · From: Germany

Thanks for pointing me to this other thread, Frank.
@Pete: I tried it straight to the amp, same problem.
What else did I do:
1. I can't hear it when I play the steel without the amp.
2. I hear it when I record or play back to/from my computer.
3. I checked again with the Orange Thunder. Way better, less audible, but still there.
4. I slanted the bar in small increments, while plucking the strings. Though the intermodulation tone changes, it never goes away. Though I only play for a good year now, this seems to be no intonation problem.

5. And this may be the most confusing point:
I own a software/audio plug-in, it is called "Melodyne". For those who don't know it yet: With this software you can - believe it or not (else google it) - change individual notes in a recording of a single polyphonic instrument. For example, you can change the notes in the recording of a strummed guitar chord, e.g. make an A minor out of an A major. What I did: I played and recorded G/D (15th fret, 4th and 5th string) which produces an audible third deep tone - and let Melodyne analyze the recording. It shows G and D, nothing else. I think, if this annoying "buzz" tone (or whatever you want to call it) would have it's origin in a vibrating spring or similar, there should be a third tone "heard" by Melodyne. Let's assume that Melodyne is not that smart and does not recognize this third tone for whatever reason, the story goes on: If I delete either of these notes (D or G) that Melodyne detected and play back, what I hear and remains is a clear tone. This is the prove for me, that there is no hidden or undetected third note. If I move the D note downwards in half tone steps, the intermodulation tone's frequency changes - the deeper I pull the D, the higher the intermod freq gets and the less it is audible. When I have dropped the D to the G exactly one octave lower than other G, there is no intermodulation left. I think this shows, that this intermodulation tone has it's origin in the two notes played together.

6. I took my Telly. Same effect, G/D not that loud, but also audible. More on the Cube than on the Orange. Worst combination is F# & B on 1st/2nd string on the 19th fret. Bad intermodulation.

Enough for now ...

But one question to the experienced players that claim this to be a intonation problem: Could you please try to create such intermodulation tones by "simulating" a bad intonation? And are you sure, that if you move your hand back into the right position, that the intermodulation tone will go away completely?

Regards,
Karsten

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I think it's Satan. Run.

Karsten Gorkow · From: Germany

Why the hell should I run? First see what he has to offer ...

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

This is a strange one? I can tell when my third string is getting ready to break as it produces a "sitar" type tone. You can also have something loose on the guitar that is producing a "sympathy note" and what I just mentioned you will hear without an amp. If the rollers are loose and not lubricated the same thing can happen and any
loose part that vibrates may momic the same sound.

Just a few suggestions?

Lenny

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

You very well may have a left hand dampening problem. I doubt it's the amp or the guitar.

Karsten Gorkow · From: Germany

@Kevin: No, definitely no damping problem. I tried sloppy damping, it sounds different.

@Len: I don't believe in a resonating part either. This should be audible without amplification.

This morning I tried something else: I left the volume pedal at a very low level position and increased the volume of the Cube (btw its a Cube 80X, no XL, but this should not make a difference). The intermodulation was far less audible then, but still there, as it is with other amplifiers.

IMHO poor headroom of either the input stage or the ADC of the Cube increases this problem, but it's not the origin.

Jerry Gleason · From: Eugene, Oregon, USA

I have exactly the same problem with my Cube 80X. Very bad Intermodulation distortion (not clipping). This IM distortion is most bothersome when playing closely spaced intervals like thirds on the treble strings, and gets uglier the further up the neck you go. It's worst on the "clean" (JC-120 emulated) channel, a little less noticeable with the "black panel" (twin reverb) patch.

The power amp and speaker seem to be fine. If I plug my Sarno Tonic Tube preamp into the 1/8" aux input on the back, which goes straight to the power amp, there is no objectionable distortion of any kind, it's clean and clear.

This Cube 80X has been a big disappointment for me. Although I like the general character of the sound, I hear too many processing artifacts in it. I wish there were a truly clean channel with no amp emulation. I have been able to minimize the distortion issue somewhat by adjusting the gain structure so that the amp volume is turned up at least halfway, and keeping the input signal low.

Mine is also the 80X, not XL, but I borrowed an 80XL from a friend to check, and it has the same issue, although it's not nearly as bad as mine. I might not have noticed it right away on the XL if I weren't looking for it.

Karsten Gorkow · From: Germany

Hi Jerry,
yes, you're absolutely right ... the closer, the higher, the worse. My experiments with Melodyne show me, that these intermodulations come from the two tones when played together. The prove has to be made, that other guitars don't produce these, I think they do, as my Telly does. But I think the fact that the Cube 80X amplifies these intermodulations so heavily and brings them "in your face" makes you and me sensitive to hear them also when playing thru other amplifiers, were you normally wouldn't care or even notice, because they are not that loud there.

Karsten Gorkow · From: Germany

What I found out in the meantime: The third tone has the difference frequency (e.g. G5 784Hz and E5 659 Hz played together produce 125Hz, appr. a B2, I could verify this with Melodyne).
Yesterday I changed the BL 710 back to the original Emmons single coil, and I think it's slightly better now, because of the lower output of this pickup and the fact, that I can move it a bit further away from the strings. What helps too, is to keep the average playing volume pedal setting somewhere in the middle and instead crank up the Cube to get the desired playing volume.

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

When I started playing I had a Super Twin that did this primarily on strings 5-6 up the neck
Being a Fender/Marshall fan and a bit of a Peavey snob at the time I was resistant to Peavey amps even though I had used some great sounding Peavey amps.
When I tried and bought a friends Nashville 400 it went away..
I have Fender amps now that work fine... In hindsight now I believe it was that amp and partly my inexperience in combination..
The sound was not much of a problem at band levels but mostly by myself practicing.
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