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Topic: Rolling ankle off B to A |
Donald Boyajian
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Posted 28 Feb 2012 12:34 pm |
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Hey all,
I'm a total beginner to PSG- but came off of lap steel for a while (as well as guitar and banjo).
That said, I feel like it is hard for me to roll of the B (and only push the A pedal), without getting in the way of the LKL. Is that just a hard move or am I sitting incorrectly? I find that ankle roll to the outside move to be quite difficult. Should I just fold up that lever until I'm a little further along. If it makes any difference, it's a GFI expo with four levels and three floors.
Thanks so much! After my few days of playing, I'm am so pumped and can't wait to progress. |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2012 1:28 pm
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A couple of things you might try:
1) Try lowering your B-pedal a little bit (or alternatively, raising the A-pedal). This means that when rolling off of B-pedal (and staying on A-pedal), you will clear the B-pedal faster and with less foot movement.
FYI, I set the relationship between my pedals so that the tiny amount of clearance between the sole of my shoe and the un-pressed pedal is about equal when pressing A-pedal alone or B-pedal alone. Most steelers set their B-pedal a little lower than A-.
2) You can also try moving your LKL lever a little to the left, assuming your guitar has a screw to adjust its angle. |
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Donald Boyajian
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Posted 28 Feb 2012 1:31 pm
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| Thanks so much! |
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Donald Boyajian
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Posted 28 Feb 2012 1:37 pm
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| I don't want to sound totally ridiculous, but how do I raise and lower an individual pedal? Sorry- I've been doing this solo- there really aren't other PSG players in my area. Thanks again |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2012 1:42 pm
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Take the pedal rod off. Unscrew the small nut that's by the spring-loaded connector. This allows you to screw or un-screw the connector on the rod, effectively making the rod longer or shorter.
A few turns is usually all it takes to make a noticeable difference, so take it easy on the adjustments. Turn it a few times and put it back on the guitar, flip it over to set it up, and sit down and try it out. Rinse and repeat.
When you get it set at the correct height, remember to tighten up that nut again to hold everything in place.
A PSG can be complicated to a new player, so take a look at this web site. It has some good information on the mechanical aspect of things:
http://www.steelguitar.com/
Good luck! |
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Fred Glave
From:
McHenry, Illinois, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2012 1:54 pm
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You may also want to try sitting a little more to the right. Sit with your belt buckle lined up with the 15th fret. This will help keep your knee from swinging out far when you do the B to A move. That postion also helps for when you play a little higher on the neck.
_________________
Zum Encore, Zum Stage One, Fender 2000, Harlan Bros., Multi-Kord, |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 28 Feb 2012 1:59 pm
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You might also experiment with different kinds of shoes. I wear single layer soft soled moccasins when I play. Unfortunately these are no longer being manufactured, but you can still get custom made ones.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2012 2:14 pm
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I agree with Fred: center yourself at the 15th fret. Be sure your seat is high enough -- I think I read on the Forum that typical pak-a-seats are around 19" tall which is a little higher than a normal ol' chair, so find something that works (doesn't have to be a seat made for steel -- could be a drum throne or folding piano bench or whatever). Seems to me that sitting too low makes those pedal moves harder.
As for shoes, Mike is right, experiment and find something that's comfortable. I go the opposite direction from moccassins; for me, having a shoe with a little bit of a heel makes that ankle-roll easier. Everybody has different ergonomic requirements, so try a few different options. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 28 Feb 2012 2:25 pm
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Another thing - Does your knee want to move to the left and right as you roll your ankle? You should be able to bend the ankle in both directions enough to rock on and off pedals without your knee moving hardly at all. If you find your knee wanting to move (and this is a problem I see with a lot of newer players), try just sitting at your guitar, grab your left knee with both your hands so it can't move, and just practice bending your ankle while rocking on and off the A & B pedals and also the B & C pedals. This will "train your ankle to bend without the rest of the leg wanting to move too. This helped me break that bad habit early in my playing days.
This is all a combination of correct seating position, pedal height, and not moving your knee when bending your ankle. I find that footwear has no bearing on whether I can or can't bend my ankle enough to clear the pedals. I can play in boots, tennis shoes, barefoot - all with the same results, as long as the sole of the shoe at the pedals is not too wide, like some sandals I have.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 28 Feb 2012 3:24 pm
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Amen to that, Mike.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Carl Kilmer
From:
East Central, Illinois
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Posted 28 Feb 2012 4:38 pm
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You can always do what I did. I can't play with any regular shoes
or sneekers like everyone else uses. The only ones I ever use are
Thom McAn's from WalMart or State Street's from K-Mart. They are
both loafers with low sides which make it easy to rock your feet.
Ron Elliott was the one that got this to me after my accident when
I couldn't even start to play a steel anymore. Many thanks Ron. 
Carl "Lucky" Kilmer
_________________
aka "Lucky Kay"--Custom built Rittenberry SD10 3X5, Walker S/S, NV-112, and Hilton Pedal |
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Bill Miller
From:
Gaspe, Quebec, Canada
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Posted 28 Feb 2012 6:27 pm
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| Lots of good advice here already. I would add that a few months from now you'll ask yourself why this particular motion felt so awkward. So many of these little ergonomic challenges become second nature with time. I'm about twenty years into it and there are still a lot of hurdles that I knock down but each and every time I sit and play for an hour I get up a better player. One move that I considered a physical impossibility for me to hit on the fly was left knee right plus the A pedal, but it doesn't seem to bother me much anymore. It all comes together with seat time. |
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Dale Hansen
From:
Hendersonville,Tennessee, (USA)
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Posted 28 Feb 2012 8:22 pm Re: Rolling ankle off B to A
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| Donald Boyajian wrote: |
...I feel like it is hard for me to roll of the B (and only push the A pedal), without getting in the way of the LKL. Is that just a hard move or am I sitting incorrectly? I find that ankle roll to the outside move to be quite difficult. Should I just fold up that lever until I'm a little further along. |
Donald, These fellas have given some great advice, and I would agree that you should adjust your pedals to where they really feel good, comfortable and 'right' to you, in the A&B - 'down' position.
First off,..I really wouldn't recommend folding the lever up and getting it out of the way. The lever isn't the problem. The problem is in your hips. You are trying to compensate for a temporary lack of flexibility by trying to assist, with an arc motion, of your left hip. You might even be rotating your right hip towards the guitar,..to assist your left hip. That's a whole lot of wasted motion, right there, And,..it doesn't help your ankle one bit. Take heart, though. The move that you're having difficulty with, at the moment, is an unnatural position for your ankle.
There's really not any other daily, routine task that I can think of, that requires that particular motion. Our ankles are mostly used (99%) to make minute adjustments under our feet to maintain a solid foundation for standing or walking. It will take a mixed-bag combo of repetition, effort, and time to get over the discomfort, and develop the flexibility that you need to get things happening there.
If you were to fold up the lever at this point, it would re-enforce the development of a bad habit, and perpetuate the problem. Your goal, for now, is to isolate that ankle, and eliminate any other unnecessary movement. Then do the same thing, systematically, with the rest of your body, all around your guitar.
In short,..try to maintain an acute sense of awareness of whatever it is that your body is doing. Find ways to minimize the effort required, the fewest moving (body) parts, and, with the least amount of motion of those parts.
Best of all to you,
Your pal, Dale
_________________
Bessdang Gizmos - "An Equal Opportunity Annoyer" |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2012 9:31 pm
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Donald, lots of good advice (including not folding up the lever!) One further thing I can suggest- we don't normally roll our ankle back and forth in everyday life, so the ligaments can be a bit tight. You can accelerate the comfort process by repeating the back and forth ankle rolls while watching TV or during meetings, etc. Can't hurt!
_________________
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 28 Feb 2012 9:43 pm
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| Donald Boyajian wrote: |
| there really aren't other PSG players in my area. |
New York is a big state. Where do you live? There may be players near you that you have not yet met.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Quentin Hickey
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 29 Feb 2012 4:06 am
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| Joe wright has exercizes for this in one of his mixing movements vidoe's. He metions if you have alot of inflexabililty issures to practice just the A pedal roloong as a drill at the start of you practice. Afterall how many people actually WANT to roll their ankle. I've rolled my right ankle over to the point of popping it a few times. These exercizes do help. Once you to the point where you have to A and Fand than dissengaging the F, it gets a little harder so you really need to loosen it up. |
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Donald Boyajian
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Posted 29 Feb 2012 9:26 am
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Wow. I'm blown away by the helpful responses. Thank you all so much!
Yes, my knee does want to go out left, so the LKL is the problem, but the inward motion from A to B or B to C feels much more intuitive.
Also, I really did want to fold up that LKL lever for now- thank you for telling me not too.
I'm living in Ithaca right now- actually some of my guitar buddies put me in touch with someone for a few lessons, so I'm really excited. Hopefully he'll get me squared away on setup with everything- right now, I've narrowed my shoe choices to a pair of tony lama's and a pair of work loafers.
Thanks again! I'm looking forward to asking you guys more questions as I continue to progress! |
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Teddy Lloyd
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 29 Feb 2012 3:11 pm
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| Also line your fooi strait with B and C leave your heel there angul your front over to A and B |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 29 Feb 2012 7:33 pm
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| Donald Boyajian wrote: |
I'm living in Ithaca right now- |
Dave Borissoff, the head of Hipshot Products, is in interlaken, not too far from Ithaca. You should contact him.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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