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Topic: Question about ZB guitars |
Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2012 8:52 am |
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To those that know ZB guitars...
I am considering another old S10.. I was thinking about a Bud [again], but am thinking even harder about a ZB.. I want something old to sit alongside my Fender 800.. I find as I get older, and am not playing out anymore, at least for now, that a tight, precise, modern mechanism isn't as big a deal to me as it once was, and nostalgia and that "old pedal steel" sound and look are more important..
Just wondering if the original ZB steels are all pull, and if they are really that hard to work on??.
I have no problem working on/adjusting Bud, MSA, Dekley, or even cable Fenders, but HAVE had problems setting up steels like Marlen guitars that were pull release.
Worked on BMI guitars as well, no issues at all, but I guess a ZB isn't the same.. Thats why I am asking..
Would a guy with pretty good mechanical skills be able to change lever set ups, copendents etc??.... I am thinking real hard about selling my Carter, and getting another vintage steel instead.. I am SO enjoying my Fender, and it plays and sounds so good, that I want another "antique".. Any help with what to expect from a ZB undercarriage would be well appreciated!... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 22 Feb 2012 12:21 pm
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| Bob, seriously, have Greg Jones or Billy Knowles do it for you. Believe me, I am telling you, I have seen many try to tinker with the ZB undercarriage and they all failed, thinking they could figure it out for themselves. I don't work on the old ones anymore as I make new ones. If you have Greg or Billy do it for you they come out perfect. Some of the older ones do tend to have 4th string hysterisis which is hard to get out, but with some adjustment sometimes you can clear it. You can't beat that ZB sound! Everyone who hears it live is taken aback. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2012 1:37 pm
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Didn't the later ZB guitars use a more user friendly undercarriage??.. Not sure I want to deal with a guitar I can't work on.......Regardless of the sound. Are they all pull guitars or pull release???
What causes the set up difficulty?... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 22 Feb 2012 2:18 pm
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Bob,
ZB's are all-pull steels.
There's nothing complicated about the mechanism at all, in fact it's quite primitive, the main problem is that there is a lot of 'stuff' in a small space, and so it can be a bit fiddly making adjustments. |
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Ray Anderson
From:
Jenkins, Kentucky USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2012 2:21 pm
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Hey Bob, I have an old pull release and after awhile of study it simplifies in operational theory. The most important factor I've come across is making sure there is enough slack or free travel on rods so they can make the transition without binding. Richard Burton is the "go to" man on these.  |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2012 2:50 pm
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As you can see in the picture, under the hood, ZB's don't resemble any other pedal steel. Instead of cross shafts that rotate, they have flat sheets of metal that utilize a pivot point.
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 22 Feb 2012 4:32 pm
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| ZB's are not pull release. They are all pull. These are not simple mechanics. The leaverages involved are counter intuitive in some respects. Sometimes (many times)complete disassembly and reassembly are in order. Greg and Billy have have tweeks that are only learned by many years of trial and error that will result in a well playing guitar. These are semi-permanant mechanics. This is why the newer ones I make have all quick change bell crank mechanics. I would talk to Greg or Billy before purchasing. I have rarely seen a used one that didn't need adjustment and cleaning. |
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B. Greg Jones
From:
Middleport, Ohio USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2012 5:56 pm
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Bob, A ZB that is set up properly will play well and stay in tune. All 3/4" maple, cast aluminum, Pick-up, and the changer always resting on the inside or outside of the endplate, give these guitars a wonderful tone. They are not all that difficult to work on but they do have a few quirks here and there. If you do decide to get one, feel free to email or call me with any questions or parts you may need. I have helped a few people do it themselves through email and phone calls. Be glad to help you out any way that I can.
Greg |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2012 7:35 pm
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If you love Fenders you will love ZBs! They are way different from each other but both very toneful and full of mojo.
_________________
Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps
Last edited by Dave Zirbel on 23 Feb 2012 6:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2012 4:32 am
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| B. Greg Jones wrote: |
Bob, A ZB that is set up properly will play well and stay in tune. All 3/4" maple, cast aluminum, Pick-up, and the changer always resting on the inside or outside of the endplate, give these guitars a wonderful tone. They are not all that difficult to work on but they do have a few quirks here and there. If you do decide to get one, feel free to email or call me with any questions or parts you may need. I have helped a few people do it themselves through email and phone calls. Be glad to help you out any way that I can.
Greg |
thanks Greg,,the main problem will re rearranging the copedent.. I have a real oddball.. I have my E's on the right, my 2nd string 2 step lower is on LkR.. The guitar has 4 and 4, and I typical use 5 and 5, which is on my Carter, or 6 and 4 which is what I have on my Fender 800. Kevin mentioned hysterisis. I don't want to deal with strings that don't return to pitch, especially an E 4th....Is this problem inherent, or easily curable on ZB's?.. I have always wanted one. The sound look, and mojo are without peer in my opinion... Mechanicals are important however, and I want to enjoy the guitar, not fight with it. You have a collection of spare parts for these guitars I imagine??... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Brandin
From:
Newport Beach CA. USA
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B. Greg Jones
From:
Middleport, Ohio USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2012 3:59 pm
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Bob,
The 4th string problem is from the string hanging up at the nut roller. As long as the roller is cleaned, lubed and the string is going as straight as possible accross the roller (meaning winding the string up the tuner post) there wont be a problem. The E to F change can be a real bear for RKR as the cross shaft sits too close to the changer. A way around that is to run another cross shaft further from the knee lever to operate the pull rods. Having the room to do all of this on a S-10 can make it tough. Most all ZB's that I have seen from the factory have the 2nd string lower on RKR.
Greg |
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