Looking for advice on a new guitar

Aaron Goldstein · From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Hello all, I've just recently joined and looking for some honest, unbiased advice from the masses.

I've been a standard guitar player for 20 years and a steel guitarist for 6, and I'm now lucky enough to play for a living. It's a bit of a struggle sometimes but I wouldn't trade it. I tour quite a bit and do a fair bit of a session work, I also produce music for other artists and do a fair bit of composing. It helps to be in an area where there are far fewer jobbing steel players than, say, in Tennessee.

I guess you could say I have three distinct acts that I play with: the primary act is where I make most of my money, and is essentially a folk-rock group that also becomes heavier at times. It's like playing with the Stray Gators and Crazy Horse at the same time, to borrow a Neil Young reference. The second is very nearly a classic country outfit, heavy on the George Jones/Buck Owens influence, tons of fun for me. The third I only get to do when I'm home from touring, so not very often, but it's 5-piece very heavy psychedelic group where I switch between 6-string and steel and run loads of effects and get really crazy. And then typically, when I'm called for a session, it's usually with a songwriter who's writing in the folk/alt-country vein.

I'm still playing and touring with only my second-ever pedal steel, a 4+5 Carter S10DB with SS-10. I love it and ordered it new from the factory (through Al Brisco) to my spec, and it still sounds great. Stays in tune and has been a workhorse for me...but I believe it might be time to move up in the world and I'm at a complete loss as to which direction to head because of the variance of styles that I play.

I have the opportunity to purchase a Fulawka 12-string extended E9 guitar. Boy oh boy is it a pricey machine but I understand these guitars are worth the money and I feel the extended palette will be highly advantageous to me in my primary outfit, as well as the psychedelic band. And in general, I feel it will help to broaden my horizons as a player, and generally allow me to keep heading further and further outside the box.

I also have the opportunity to buy a gorgeous Marrs-rebuilt D10 Bud, I presume late 70's. It won't have the Franklin pedal that I've come to enjoy using, nor my handy B-lower LKV. But it is a thing of great beauty and likely has tone for days. And it's half the price of the Fulawka. It would probably also be a great guitar for all of my applications, except that I expect it's prohibitively heavy. I'm lucky that my primary employer is not terribly concerned with the steel being overweight for flying (the Carter in flight case is already overweight) but it doesn't make lugging it around town any easier when I'm home.

If I buy ONE of these guitars, I would like to also keep the Carter, so that I may keep a steel set up at home for practice and another that is my road guitar.

Even in the HIGHLY unlikely event that I can find the money for BOTH of these steels, it would involve selling my Carter and hence leave me without an S10 to grab-and-go for small in-town gigs and sessions.

I'm told that once switching to the different string spacing of an S12, that it can be difficult to switch back to an S10? Can anybody comment?

THEN AGAIN the Carter is currently serving all of these purposes, so am I being ridiculous in thinking to replace it?!

So many issues to contemplate - if I don't grab this Fulawka and instead get myself on Ed's waiting list, how long will I wait for my new guitar? Last I heard it was four years!

Furthermore if I don't grab the Bud now and decide to wait a number of years before indulging in a vintage purchase, will the prices have skyrocketed? Furthermore, am I going to have the money and freedom to make a purchase like this in 5-7 years when I will likely have already started a family?

As you can see I'm at a bit of a crossroads. Sorry for writing this novel. Your input is sought and is most welcome, gentlemen.

Ransom Beers · Posted 10 Mar 2012 9:52 am

If money is no object I'd contact Russ Hicks or the Sho-Pro people,you can find the links in the "Links Tab" at the top of this page,there are also some other guitar builders listed as well who are very good,like BSG ( I own one & love it)

Aaron Goldstein · From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Money is something of an object...the Bud is $2500 and the Fulawka will be at least $5k. Affording the Fulawka will be a stretch but I can find the money if I feel that it's the time to jump upon it.

The only way I can afford both would be if I sold the Carter, and an amp or two! But it's also an option I'm considering.

Jerry Foster · From: Missouri, USA

I have a new Justice Pro-Lite loaded & I just love it. & Russ H.& Randy W. builds A very fine Russler pedal steel also, I had a chance to play one & it was awesome. those are my personal choices. thanks Jerry f.

Aaron Goldstein · From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Yes I've seen the Russler (though not in person) and it looks to be a beautiful steel. However I don't believe that this is exactly what I'm after.

What the Fulawka has going for it is that it's top-of-the-line, and it's an S12 extended E9. I'm sure most are aware but there is a hefty waiting period for one of these steels, so if I'm going to grab this one, there are no options. I get an S12 or nothing, and it's black mica. That doesn't really bother me though, I'm sure it'll sound and play like a million bucks. And has the added benefit of actually taking me into a new playing realm that might be great for me as an artist.

The Sho-Bud is entirely a different beast. It is a beautiful rebuilt tone machine, but I'm liable to have to start dealing with things like cabinet drop that I don't really have to deal with on the Carter. The potential to save tons of money is appealing but is it the right steel for me at this point in my career? Hard to say.

I suppose I'm mostly looking for input from anybody who plays a new Fulawka or an old Sho-Bud! But happy to hear from anybody with opinions. Thanks.

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

You're a touring musician, so think practically about the right tool for the job.

Looking at your list of bands, it seems that it would be nice have a C6 neck, but not a requirement. If you feel like you don't want (or need) to play C6, you might want to pass on the D-10 strictly for weight reasons.

As for the possibility that vintage prices may skyrocket, my guess is that prices will stabilize in the PSG market as the aging, retiring-from-music baby boomers sell-off in mass in the coming years. There's a huge contingency of folks that came to PSG in the early 60's due to country featuring it so prominently. Another group of folks took up PSG in the early 70's with country rock. Long-time players tend to collect a number of fine guitars. I think we're about to see more and more Buds and Push-pulls that these people have in their stable come to market. A glut in supply means that prices will not have as much of a tendency to shoot up, even though there are a finite number of these ax's in the world; there just aren't as many young people taking up steel as there were in those earlier eras. Hopefully, that will change... but if not, you'll still be able to get a nice vintage guitar at a reasonable price for the foreseable future.

If you're really only considering these two guitars, I would say Fulawka Extended 12-string fits your needs better. And I imagine that any string-spacing difference between it and the Carter could be dealt with after a 10 minute warm-up.

The thing is, though, if you're looking at dropping 5K on a guitar, you can pretty much get any guitar you want built to your specifications. If that dream guitar happens to be a Fulawka 12, go for it. But if you're open to options, don't feel like you have to buy the Fulawka just because you found one available.

As a side note, if I carry the leg bag separately as a carry-on, my Carter SD-10 in flight case comes in right at 49 or 50lbs. Airlines flag it through with no extra overweight fee. You might give it a try if that fee ever becomes an issue with your boss.

W. C. Edgar · Posted 10 Mar 2012 2:28 pm

Hey man, hope you're well.
I'd pick up an old Sho Bud like the 82 Pro 2 I play. Easy to work on and mine stays in tune well. If I was buying a new guitar I'd call Jerry Fessenden.
See ya,
WC

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Everything mentioned above has merit, but I can't see why you want to retire a perfectly good guitar that has the specific features that you want, will sound the way you want it to, work dependably for years to come and yet weighs significantly less than any of the alternatives you have mentioned.

If I was in your shoes and wanted to expand my understanding and skills I would find a good, used D10 P/P or 'Bud Professional from a forum member and set it up at home as a practice rig. Besides saving you a bundle on a solid long-term investment you will benefit from learning your way around a standard copedant. This can come in REALLY handy if you're out and about and another steeler invites you to sit in on their guitar in front of a crowd.

If you absolutely have your heart set on spending that much money upgrading your show guitar a Fessy, Franklin, Zum or Mullen or similar would be the direction I would be headed, although it is highly unlikely that I will personally ever own anything newer than my current 1970's vintage guitars, as they already please me mightily and I'd rather put a new roof on the house or give the wife a new kitchen.

Speaking for myself, with nearly forty years under my belt I'm still learning new stuff that can be done with my little old 3+2 S10 Pro I, not to mention what remains to be discovered on my 8+5 D10 PP "real" guitar. Just sayin'....

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

Here's another thing to consider if traveling a lot and having to move a guitar regularly. Mica or lacquer body. Mica holds up better and doesn't show wear like a lacquer body will due to being banged around and into by accident. Most lacquered guitars are a beautiful piece of work but one bump or scratch and there it is, usually!

Aaron Goldstein · From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

How are ya W.C.! Hope you're well, too.

Dave I hear what you're saying. The Carter is a pro guitar, for sure, and I love it. And I agree that I haven't mastered it by any means. The thing is, I know the Fulawka is absolutely top-of-the-heap. Just the fact that there's one available has got my trigger finger itching. If I could order one and have it in 3 months it'd be a different story.

And Tucker I take your point that the vintage prices don't stand to climb very high in the next few years. Definitely something to chew upon.

And Billy I'm with ya on that point as well...if I bought the Sho-Bud it would become the home guitar, if only so that I can begin to understand C6.

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Hi Aaron and welcome to the forum!
The guitars you mention are all great machines.
If you ever go west down the 401, make sure to give me a call. Stop in and we can talk steel and I'll show you the ones I build. You just never know - you might like them!
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Ransom Beers · Posted 10 Mar 2012 5:23 pm

If you want "Top of the line "consider a Franklin albeit they are hard to come by & as I understand it Mr. Franklin isn't taking any new orders,maybe you could find a used one.Also top "O" tha line guitar is Zumsteel by Bruce Zumsteg but he also is backed up on building & I don't know if he's taking any new orders or not.in the $5000.00-$6000.00 range.To me price does not make a guitar "Top Of The Line"it's playability,dependability etc. etc.I think my guitar is "Top "O" tha line"too.

Marc Jenkins · From: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

Aaron, the price of Sho~Buds doesn't seem to change that much; I've been watching the forum for over 4 years, and bought two singlenecks, and that's what I've seen. If you go down that road, I'd highly recommend an early 70's model for tone. These play stiffer than your Carter, but if you have a refurb/rebuild by james Morehead and/or Ricky Davis (both forum members) it will maximize the playability.

A Bud would be perfect for the Romano band, tonally anyway!

Aaron Goldstein · From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

I will agree that the price of a guitar doesn't necessarily dictate its place in the pecking order. Can anybody who owns or plays a Fulawka speak to its quality? My pal Bob Egan, not sure if he ever frequents this forum, was the only guy from whom I ever took steel lessons. He has abandoned his Fessendens in favour of Fulawkas and now has two of them. Certainly this comes down to personal preference but he can't say enough good about them.

Bob actually leant me a 70's Bud and I gigged with it one night (with my main job), and it was awesome! Pure tone. The Carter sounds and plays great but this was another level. It definitely was stiffer than the Carter though.

Bent, I'm going to be in London at the end of next week on a session. I think I'm meant to be there for a couple days in fact. Do you have a demo steel that I could pop in and sit at? I'll also be back again in a few weeks, playing at Centennial Hall on the night of the 28th.

Marc...have we met? The Romano band has never been out to your neck of the woods! Though it would be a nice treat. Maybe once the next record is out. It's all done, by the way...

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Aaron, I sure do have a guitar that you can try. Have it set up in the shop here and ready to play.
I am also working on a new steel now so you can see how they go together.
Will you be recording at EMAC?
I hope you can make it, looking forward to meeting you!
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Marc Jenkins · From: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

Aaron, we haven't met. I'm a big Romano fan though, would be great to hear you guys out here! I do believe I heard you with C&C at Rifflandia, albeit from about 10 blocks away! Do drop a line if you come this far west.

Rob Fenton · From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Hi Aaron,

I'm in Toronto too, though newer to the pedal steel than you are. I'm primarily a dobroist, and it has certainly made for good opportunities to have a smaller pool of players in this neck of the woods. Still gotta make my own work though...

I suppose you've had a chance to play Bob Egan's Fulawka?
Or perhaps Burke Carroll's? I'm sure Burke would gladly let you check out his guitar. I can get you in touch with him if you don't have his contact info.

They are definitely awesome machines, though certainly pricey.

I just sent you a PM concerning a guitar that I'll be moving in the next little while. It's a Pre-RP Mullen S12 Ext E9 with 5+5 that was overhauled in November by Mickey Adams in Texas. Great guitar, but I feel a D-10 will better match my needs. Just thought I'd mention it, as it may suit your playing styles.

Rob.

Roual Ranes · From: Atlanta, Texas, USA

How about the MSA Studio Pro ?

Aaron Goldstein · From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Marc, that would have been me indeed, playing one of my first gigs with them, and our guitar player didn't make that gig either - we did it as a four-piece. I still cringe when I think about it, it was such a weird gig where I had to cover all sorts of new bases when I was still learning the songs.

Rob I think I may have met you once at the Dakota! I walked in, maybe to pick up some gear or something, and you were playing dobro with a trio so I had to stop and watch. I'm not sure if the Mullen is what I'm after, but since you're in town perhaps I could come check it out? I've not played Bob nor Burke's Fulawka steels. I know Burke as well and could give him a shout, though hadn't considered it.

Roual, I hadn't considered a new MSA. I always steered clear of the older ones because I knew them to be incredibly heavy. I see from their site that they are making a new lighter series. Anybody played one?

For that matter, what is everybody's (anybody's!) experience with the newer LeGrande III's? Do they live up tonally to their predecessors?

Adam Goodale · From: Pflugerville, TX

I am a push pull guy. It's all I own. However this weekend at the Dallas show I played a Mullen G2 for almost an hour. I was amazed. So much so I almost bought one on the spot. If I bought a brand new steel today that is what I would buy. Just something to check out.
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Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Aaron, My friend, Peewee Charles (Ed Ringwald) from Waterloo told me that the LeGrandeIII is a great recording guitar.
I will send you a PM with my phone# so you can call when you come to London
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Aaron Goldstein · From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Bent, of course I know of Pee Wee from his years with Gordon Lightfoot. In fact, recently a mutual friend passed along his e-mail address to me and I have been meaning to be in touch with him simply to talk steel.

My London session is at the former House of Miracles on Wellington St. Apparently there is a new owner and it does not yet have a new name.
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