all pull closest to the emmons push pull in tone????

Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Which modern all pull steel gets closest in tone to the Emmons push pull Steel? Some say the Rittenberry is pretty close.

Carson Leighton · From: N.B. Canada

Brad,,my Carter sounds similar to my p/p Emmons..It has a GL E-66 PU on the E-9th neck and a 10-1 on C-6th.I've heard some all-pull Emmons guitars that sound very close to a P/p,,at least to my ear...Regards,,Carson

Tony Dingus · From: Kingsport, Tennessee, USA

The hybride model Zumsteel might be close.

Tony

Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

My Zum hybrid is very similar to my p/p tonewise (both with similar single coil pickups). Haven't had the opportunity to do A/B comparisons with any other steels though, so I don't know if it comes closest.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I can hear the p/p growl in my Zum Hybrid.

Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

I don't know about up close but over TV, Gary Carter's Zum does not have the same or even near the same tone as Mike Johnson's Push Pull Emmons. To my ears, Mike Johnson's tone is superb. I realize that tone can be also affected by the electronics and the player. Another player that had excellent tone on the same TV channel was Paul Franklin backing Dawn Sears when she sang "If you're Gonna do me wrong, do it right"..Paul's instrumental break and tone was so outstanding that the audience broke into applause before Dawn could continue singing, of course, he was using his Franklin Steel.

Bill Cunningham · From: Atlanta, Ga. USA

Several years ago we were opening for Ray Price. Danny Mohammed (sp?) was still with him. He played a push pull. My Carter, with George L TPPP's was into some Peavey amp. probably a NV 400. Between shows Danny asked to try my guitar, said he had never sat at a Carter. He said "Can I adjust your amp?" And in about 10 seconds, another pro player's head, (who was listening), snapped like the girl in The Excorcist and he said, "Wow, that sounds just like a push pull".

I think it's the hands and knowing how to use the gear.

Your mileage may vary.....
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Bill Cunningham
Atlanta, GA

Wally Moyers · From: Lubbock, Texas

I can hear the growl in my G2.. I played a push pull for years, the Mullen G2 reminds me of the p/p only it plays much better... If you strum a p/p and a g2 with no amp you will hear a similar sound... The Zum has it too even though I'v never personally played one...

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

So far it sounds like Zum Hybrid is the one. Even Carter is mentioned, which is a surprise to me. G2, Rittenberry are also mentioned.

I believe it is in the ears that hear, and the hands that play.
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Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

If you strum a p/p and a g2 with no amp you will hear a similar sound<<

Wally, That's probably a good test because it leaves the player and the electronics out of the equation.

Tab Tabscott · From: Somewhere between Vashon Island and The mainland.

I'm lucky to have Jason Lollar as my neighbor on the island. I had him rewrap some 70's Emmons PP pickups which I stuck on my Carter and it is darn close. I had a 77 Emmons for a long time and to THIS DAY kick myself in the butt for ever letting that one go...
It was serial #2540, I recall. I'd buy it back if its out there...

ahem...
Tab
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Tab Tabscott

Play nice.

They is none else.

Bill Lowe · From: Connecticut

I think I saw Terry Crisp playing a carter Starter on a video. He had that P/P growl. Whoa!

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JCH D10, 71 D10 P/p fat back, Telonics TCA 500C--12-,Fender JBL Twin, Josh Swift signature.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

I would say that nothing that isn't a push pull sounds or plays like a push pull. Its like an old tele. You can put in the right pickups and adjust your amp all you want and your Paul Reed Smith guitar will never be a vintage tele. I just sat down at Herb Stiener's 80's PP and was reminded again about how unique a PP really is. I love the sound of all pull guitars and play a Rains because it is my favorite but they are not the same as an old Emmons.
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Bob

Cliff Kane · From: the late great golden state

Bob's right. If you want a guitar that sounds--and plays and feels--like a push-pull get a push-pull. An all-pull guitar may suggest the sound of push-pull, but it will not recreate the gestalt of playing a push-pull. Some amps and gear may also have the affect of compressing the push-pull to the all-pull, to where many guitars played through the gear may sound more similar than they could if played through a better system. What other guitar sounds the same as a Sho-Bud fingertip, permanent, etc.? What Gibson sounds like a Fender? What Strat sounds like a Tele? They can suggest the sound, but it's not going to be the same thing.

Ken Byng · From: Southampton, England

I have 6 pedal steels including a D10 push pull. Carrying out A/B testing, the closest of my other 5 guitars to the push pull is my MCI. But....there isn't a bad sounding guitar among them.
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Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E,

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

It has been commented that the only guitar that sounds better than an Emmons p/p is a ZB.
What say you'all?

Ken Byng · From: Southampton, England

I have owned two ZB's. Great distinctive tone, with clean but pronounced midrange and lots of highs. Very different to the push pull, which I find to have a more full bodied tone and sparkling highs. I personally prefer the Emmons' tone especially on the wound strings.

The ZB's had coil taps on the pickups which makes any comparison very difficult. Both great tonal guitars, but it depends upon what tone you like.
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Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E,

Cliff Kane · From: the late great golden state

Old Emmons, Sho-Buds, ZB's, Fenders: IMHO, they are the pedal steel guitars that have the tone, although they all sound different enough from each other. Contemporary all-pulls sounds really good too, and different makers may stand out from others in their sound, like Mullens, EMCI--but if all of these guitars were lined-up for tone, think the contemporary all-pulls will be one one side and the oldies will be one the other side. I think a lot of it comes down to the metal. Metal isn't what it used to be. I think if one where to make a guitar today that will have tone and feel that is in the same league as the old guitars, one may want to start with considering the metal.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Yep, they sure don't make iron like they used to. Rolling Eyes

Peter Freiberger · From: California, USA

The one thing I gather from all this discussion is that the P/P remains the benchmark of tone, against which everything else is judged. And don't forget, some P/P's sound even better than others.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

When you talk about the tone of a p/p, you've got good and you've got gooder. Very Happy

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

Let me posit a question to the knowledgeable members of the Forum:

How is it that no one asks "which of the Emmons push-pulls sound most like a modern all-pull guitar?"
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Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

The one thing I gather from all this discussion is that the P/P remains the benchmark of tone, against which everything else is judged. And don't forget, some P/P's sound even better than others.<<

Strange that someone is not building them in the USA today..why settle for less than the best?

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I bought this new p/p from Emmons just a few years ago.

Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Looks great ERV, does it sound and play like the older ones..is it your favorite Steel and are they still building them?

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