Optimizing one's psg

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

Greetings

after havin' had discussions on this subject w: builders, steel techs & buddies, i decided to post about it here & see what comes forth
optimizing one's psg which helps one play better
how many of us/you that have psgs just play them & accept them the way they are ?
in other words, do some think about optimizing one's psg for comfort, speed & reliability ?
i would think some, if not many, just take the way their psgs work for granted & figure that's just how they're supposed to be
i'm sure those that have the know how & mechanical skills to optimize their psgs have probably already done so
those who don't, chug along not necessarily knowing that there's a good chance their psg could be optimized ?
before i elaborate any more on this, i'll let youze guys jump on in & confirm whether this topic is worthwhile
( this topic is aimed so steel techs can get to put their art at work Winking

)

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

I prefer that my RKR and LKL are close to my rear apron so I don't have reach in to get them.
My levers are in a curved pattern the way my knees swing naturally.
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes

Chris Brooks · From: Providence, Rhode Island

Bonjour, M. Crowbear!

My "optimization" is basic: I am 6' 6" (what's that, about 1.95 m.?) so I had my Carter built 2 inches higher.

I also tilt it very slightly up at the back. I feel it helps my left hand hold the bar in a more relaxed way.

Salut!

Jean-Christophe

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

But... I'm very short, 5'2". My steel is lowered about 2", I have the A pedal in what would normally be most players B pedal position. I built flags for "All" of my knee levers, and they are big. Did what ever was needed to get the vertical exactly where I wanted it. My steel fits me like a glove, not many others can play it, or want to. A Derby SD10 mostly standard emmons set up with E raise/lower on opposite knees...

Bo Legg · Posted 25 Jan 2012 11:23 am

Since I don’t lower the 3, 5, 6 and 10 ( G#s and Bs) I spot weld each of those fingers so that the lowering mech. doesn’t pivot which increases the mechanical advantage rendering my A, B and C pedals softer and faster.

I also make adjustments and stagger the height of the A, B and C pedals so I can rock on the pedals without engaging slightly the wrong pedal. Soft sole Moccasin shoes help in this regard.

I also tilt the PSG so the back part of the steel is comfortable and the front is much higher than the back.
I don’t use a kit or spacers I just telescope the bottom of the front legs out and leave the pedals where they were (the tilt compensates for the difference). This allows more clearance between my arms and the back neck and allows me to sit up much straighter with a good view of the fret markers.

The main advantage to these modifications are that it takes some getting use to. So if another player wants to duel with me he better bring his own weapon because it is going to very difficult for him trying to use mine. Laughing

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

weld the strings, bo!

it's true..you should, once you're sure about your pedal and lever copedant, fine tune positions of lever tilt, pedal height , stops etc. to the best ergonomically efficient spot. also pickup height and seat height. it's like a race car..the easier it is to convey mental to physical, the easier it is to think the music.
and, as bo says, you probably wouldn't want to sit in on my steel and i definitely don't want to play yours.

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

Thanx for the replies guys
so far optimizing seems to consist of the easy things one can do like adapting your steel to your body
which is basically something we should all know how to do

i like what Chris wrote : " it's like a race car..the easier it is to convey mental to physical, the easier it is to think (i would put "& play ") the music. "

i'd like to go further w: my post
how bout optimizing pedals & levers ?
i've noticed that some like pedals that are "like butter" whereas others prefer "harder" action pedals
here again, those in the know will get them done the way they want them
but what about those who don't know ?

steel builders who deal w: specific or custom orders will optimize those steels for those specific customers
whereas, stock models that go out to dealers are probably not as optimized
i figure that builders set them up "close enough" so that the buyers won't have to futz around too much w: them & be content w; the way they are
that's quite understandable imo

now let's take pro players who go out on the road
surely most of them know enough about psgs to keep 'em workin' right or fix'em when somethin' goes wrong
i would imagine that before headin' out, just like in formula one, they get their main mechanic to make sure "she's optimized & ready to go"
how many pros take more than 1 psg w: them ?

i know i'm spreading things a bit wide but i'm doin' this on purpose
an optimized steel is a vast subject & covers many facets
from R&D & conception, to builder & to user, pro or amateur

am i makin' sense or should i give it up ?
(it's my BH thread - lol )

Richard Damron · From: Gallatin, Tennessee, USA (deceased)

Crowbear -

You and I may have covered this during our sessions on Skype so forgive me if I'm being redundant.

The best thing that I've done to my guitar is to move the LKL and LKR levers to the right and toward the rear apron. This, as an alternative to getting my friendly surgeon to break my left leg, then set it at an angle - an expensive exercise in getting to be bow-legged. I only stand 5'-8" so this was a necessity. Further, I instantly detested that LKV lever! Took a lesson from Buck Reid - removed the LKV and mounted a second LKL about three inches into the instrument and an inch and a half to the right. The kneecap operates it effortlessly.

'Tis been said many times before, here on the forum, that one should set one's instrument up to FIT the player. If that can be done without too much to-do then the player should have at it poste haste.

See ya on Skype soon.

Richard

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

When I first got my Carter I loved it because the pedal action is so easy and light.
But now after playing a PP for a couple years it seems too touchy and I tend to graze the A pedal.. Shocked

_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

I prefer to sit more centered than most when playing, and being short (around 5'7") I move RKL & RKR a couple of inches to the left.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

My Franklin has been raised 1". In 81, when I got my Franklin new, the Franklin standard height was 1" lower than the standard for most other guitars. I never realized it until Mr Franklin told me he changed to be the same as most other brands. I knew the top of my left leg kept touching the underneath but didn't associate it with being lower than others. I got new pedal rods and front legs that are 1" taller (just extended the rear legs 1") and that made my Franklin the same height as newer Franklin's and that eliminated the touching of the underneath mechanics with my leg.

I've also replaced the original Lawrence 705's with 710's.

Other than the raise and pickups, my Franklin is the same as it was when it was delivered in late Dec 81.

Whip Lashaway · From: Monterey, Tenn, USA

Crowbear, Long time. I have made all the adjustments I can to make my steel "mine". I am a firm believer in owners being able to "work" on their steels. It's part of being able to play. You need to know what's "under the hood". We all have tastes in sound, feel, movement, etc... If you can't make those adjustments you probably won't even know for sure what it is that you do want. Example: I prefer to have my pedals bottom out at the same place, except the A pedal which is slightly higher than the B. Lots of folks prefer that they are the same when up. If you can't make pedal adjustments you are doomed to whatever they were set to by the last owner (or factory). Maybe I'm wrong but I feel that if you don't have the dexterity to make these adjustments, you probably don't have the dexterity to play it either!! I know all the manufactures will probably disagree as they would prefer you don't monkey around and get it all "out of adjustment" but that's how you learn. So "get under the hood" and figure it out. There are a lot of folks right here that are willing and able to help you get it figured out. Good luck and as always, God Bless. Whip
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Whip Lashaway
Sierra E9/B6 12 string
Sierra E9/B6 14 string
Excel S12 8x9 blue
Excel S12 8x9 black

Erich Meisberger · From: Vermont, USA

Very worthwhile topic.
I am 6'1" with long legs (and big feet)and I just raised my Fessy 1.5" in order to gain better leverage on RKR. I was catching it too close to the cross shaft.

My question now is whether I should tilt it forward or back or leave it flat. I can get used to either one but I have to believe that there is an optimum. It seems that the angle would affect the way one's right hand naturally lays on the strings and so affect palm blocking. I block with my picks (poorly) but would like to get the palm more involved.

The angle of the guitar also has a bearing on left hand technique when thought of in the context of Zane King's thoughts on the position of the arm.

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

Thanx whip, you've gotten closest to the subject i'm trying to develop
as mentioned, setting up one's psg according to one's body is vital & pretty easy
but how bout' the smoothness or the harshness of pedals & levers ?
travel & throws ?
response ?
actually this thread is dedicated to my buddy Matthieu Davallet in Lyon
this kat's got the knack for turnin' a steel into a racing car or a jet fighter !
another thing that helped want to write this post, i've got another good buddy who has a Swiss Wiesner psg that belonged to our French steelin' hero Jean Yves Lozach
since he does'nt live far from me, i get over there & love to play his Wiesner
what blows me away about it is the ease & action of the pedals & levers
i only have to concentrate on what i'm playin' & my hands
the mechanics just fall into place precise & easy

the Al-chemistry consists of transformin' the steel but most important, the steeler too

Gary Anderson · From: Fort Mohave, Arizona, USA

I am short, and my guitars have always been 1 inch under. I moved my pedals
one position to the right, and I feel a lot more comfortable when playing.
( Carter S-10)

Nic du Toit · From: Milnerton, Cape, South Africa

On my Emmons PP....took off the little 'helper' springs attached to the pedals and the pedal board. Much smoother pedal action, especially the half-pedal moves on the A pedal (Emmons setup).
Also a good idea to replace the changer axle after a few years, or mileage done....whichever comes come first... Very Happy

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Skype : nidutoit

Richard Damron · From: Gallatin, Tennessee, USA (deceased)

Crowbear -

I may be beating a dead horse, here, since I expect that many would jump my bones and declare that there's "nuthin to it", but here goes.

I am a firm advocate in arranging all things in as linear a fashion as one can. That is, the direction in which a rod moves should be tangential to the arc through which a "rotating" member moves. The number of degrees of rotation through which a pedal pivot, crossrod arm, bellcrank or finger moves is minimal - typically less than 10-12 degrees total. If one sets up an instrument such that "top-dead-center" (to use a car term) is midway through the total motion of the above mentioned parts, then the overall effort to move things - from the pedal to the changer is as minimal as it will ever get. To be sure, changing the location of the pullrod connector in the bellcrank to gain mechanical advantage, thus making the "action" feel easier, is an approved adjustment. The effort to "linearize" the system, as a whole, should be - in my estimation - the first undertaking. Set it once - then leave it alone forever.

Richard

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

Nic & Richard, your posts are in the right direction
it's this kind of stuff that i'm lookin' for as to "optimizing "

i got my Zum D10 new (2006)so it was optimized imo
of course i adjusted the levers to my legs & pedals a bit too
my buddy Mat tells me that, when it comes to it can be even better than it is
the darn problem is he needs to have it for 2 weeks
talk about withdrawal - it's the only steel i got !
guess i need a vacation...
Winking

Eric, i prefer havin muh steel level
i tried tiltin' it but prefer level
i can understand that the tall guys will compensate by tilting
pedal rod extenders are the solution imo

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Regarding tilt: do whatever it takes to avoid either a hump or valley at your bar hand wrist. Otherwise you risk damage to nerves and tendons.
By all means, optimize it for yourself, or order them new custom.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Nic du Toit · From: Milnerton, Cape, South Africa

Got to stress this....so true.....besides, it also messes up your picking and palm blocking;

John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

I've always customized placement of almost everything on my pedal steels. I sit where I want to be, then figure out where all the levers should be placed, to be as comfortable and reachable as possible.

I sit at about fret 14.

I hike my steel's rear legs up an inch or so; that angle is easier to play and block, for me anyway.

All KL's are as close as I can get them to my legs without accidentally activating them. Some KL's have been in several spots until it's just right.

The LKV is about half an inch from the top of my thigh. Mullen makes a cool double jointed doohickey that allows me to drop the KL much lower, and still be pretty parallel to the floor. Without that, your LKV might be at a wacky 35 degree angle when it's close to your thigh.

The other area of customizing is chord-sweetening compensators; I have about 8 on my E9. But I learned last year that...so does Paul Franklin! And they're exactly like mine! Proof that brilliant minds think alike. Wink

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CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

how bout optimizing pedals & levers ?
i've noticed that some like pedals that are "like butter" whereas others prefer "harder" action pedals
travel & throws ? - response of your pedals & levers ?
WC Edgar told me he preferred harder action pedals which make it easier to express feel & squeezing
like half pedal A for example

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