Recommendations For Backup

Landon Roberson · From: Church Hill, Tennessee, USA

What would you recommend for a person that wants to learn how to play backup on the steel guitar. I am wanting to play at church on Sunday mornings for the congregational hymns and need to know how to play backup. Any recommendations will be appreciated. Thanks, Landon.

Ben Lawson · From: Brooksville Florida

Depending on how many other instruments there are, I would just fill in the holes between the vocal lines. With multiple "lead or fill in" pickers you would have to arrange beforehand where each one should fill in.
Most songs have a way of telling the player where to play. You can hold chords lightly while the singer is singing and play with a bit more volume in the gaps. It doesn't sound too praise worthy if everyone tries to fill in at the same spot so you may want to chart out where each player is to fill.
Just make the backup fit the song. No chicken pickin' on "IN THE GARDEN" etc.
Sometimes less is more than enough.

Landon Roberson · From: Church Hill, Tennessee, USA

Ben there are the standard instruments: Piano, Organ, Bass Guitar, Drums, Trombone, Flute, Violin and of course me on steel. The piano player plays the standard things on the piano that all piano player do in a church and the other instruments just play what is written on their sheet music. I have the guitar sheet music with chords.

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Landon, there is a lot of real good information being offered in this active thread right now...

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=219348

Harmonized scales using your AB, AF, BC, BE pedals/levers on two string groups up and down the neck. Then across the neck.

These things need to be studied and learned to become a part of you, so when needed, they can become a part of your music. Check out my Beginners Notes, loads of stuff there to study and learn.

Keep at it, you'll be fine... And sooner then you think.

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

LANDON: I strongly urge you to visit the JERRY BYRD Fan Club site and listen to a dozen or more of the songs posted there.

Jerry has long been recognized for the exceptionally tasteful back-up that he has lent to the vocals of thousands of established and aspiring artists.

I'm not suggesting you adopt his style but if you listen intently, you'll likely recognize what and where he is doing this or that in relation to the vocal.

Back-up is an ART FORM and not just the raking of strings to fill in holes in the lyrics.

John Peay · From: Cumming, Georgia USA

As a player of about a year, I'm with Landon on having this same struggle.

I'm finding that playing tasty backup/fills between vocal lines is harder to get a handle on than playing melodies/intros/turnarounds. Playing melodies, one can use chord positions as guideposts, and it "flows" better. However, playing fills seems like more "jumping around" on the neck, and not as obvious where to find these fills.

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Thank you John... Your right, they are right here: https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=594320d13092d8fb
Look in Beginners Notes for Harmonized Scales. And while your there, check out the other things I've put up on my Skydrive... Questions, email me... And as always, "Happy Picking"!

Herby Wallace · From: Sevierville, TN, R.I.P.

Landon, I know you bought one of my backup courses a few months back, which I thought that would have helped some. Of course, the idea with the backup course is to show how fills fit against the words and phrases of the song. Of course, some songs have more holes so to speak than others. I have done recording sessions many times with Gospel Quartets where I could hardly find any holes without getting in the way.

When learning backup, first you must know the chord progression, then you have to pay attention to the words and phrasing of the vocalist to find a spot for a fill, but before you do this, you need to have learned as many different licks and fills as you can, so you have many of them to choose from at any situation. When I have done teaching seminars in the past, I have done seminars just on backup. I remember I had tabbed out the tune, Sweet Dreams and I tabbed 3 different intros that all worked and for each hole or place for a fill I had written 3 different fills that would all work. Of course, this doesn't happen over night and much of it is up to the steel player's own taste for a particular song. I know some players that have been playing 30 years that still can't play tasteful fills behind a singer. Most of the time when learning backup, it boils down to playing the right thing at the right time. Many people will play too much instead of not enough. Back when I worked with guitarist, Thumbs Carlille, he was one of the most tasteful players for backup I have ever heard or worked with. He never played anything that didn't fit perfect. Ben Lawson is a real pro as I have heard him play many times, so his advice is excellent.

Two of my courses that work very well for learning a lot of standard fills that will fit hundreds of songs are :100 Runs & Licks: and also :25 Intros & Turnarounds: works well to for learning stock intros.

I hope this helps some.

Herby Wallace

James Mayer · Posted 23 Jan 2012 4:26 pm

Herby, does the "100 Runs/Licks" book provide the context for the licks? Does it show which chords you are playing the licks over?

Herby Wallace · From: Sevierville, TN, R.I.P.

Yes, each lick shows the chord progression above it on the tab. The course consists of the tab and a CD and sells for $25.00. There are licks in the course where I may show 6 different licks all going from say a G to a C chord
just to give you different ways of doing it.

Herby Wallace

James Mayer · Posted 23 Jan 2012 4:38 pm

Sold. Ordered. Thanks!

Donnie Weir · From: Marshall, Texas, USA

Landon, Work with the other musicians, and try to take turns. Only play in the holes if possible. Even though it is hard. Playing too much is not good. Use your steel to inhance the singer, My 2 cents. Good luck. Donnie
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Ray Thomas · From: Goldsboro North Carolina

Landon, I'm not far enough along to be giving advice but one thing I learned from a Jeff Newman book is do not REPEAT do not play the melody along with the singer

Bud Angelotti · From: Larryville, NJ, USA

I used to play along with the radio. Commercials, music, whatever is on. Any type music. (Gospel is great for this!) When someone talks, lower your volume. Keep playing, even if it's one note. Support whats happening in the melody.

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

I simply cannot buy into the concept that there are standard 'licks'.......for playing various chordal chains.

It has always been my belief that any backup playing has to be based on the vocalist and the phrases he/she is singing at that moment. It's a 'personal' thing......

Each song having its own 'personality' and must be dealt with on that level. I cannot see how a 'standard' series of notes and merely linked together, can be used to fill in any songs' background that happens to have identical chord progressions.

Herby Wallace · From: Sevierville, TN, R.I.P.

Ray, I understand what you are saying and I agree that you have to listen to the way a singer phrases and you play off of that which is the way I do it. When I play myself, I don't play memorized licks and they may vary from one time to the next depending on the mood and feel of the song. I am 64 years old and have been playing for 55 years so I have learned a lot of this from experience. The purpose for the courses with stock licks and patterns is to get a beginner in the ball park as it takes a lot of time and experience to create your own licks. Of course, many artists that I have worked for over the years don't give you the freedom to play your own thing. For example, I played a theater 6 nights a week for 2 years with Jim Ed Brown and we played Pop A Top every show. Even though I don't play like Pete Drake, I had to play the song note for note as he did on the record on every fill. Now, I worked for Nat Stuckey for 3 years back in the seventies and Nat actually wrote Pop A Top, but we had a different arrangement and I was able to do my own thing when I played it with him.

Herby Wallace

P.S. One other thing when we use the term stock licks. In Nashville this is sometimes called Commercial licks and believe me, my experience has been to get work in a Country band, you have to be able to play a lot of these style licks and the same thing in a session. I always try to do my own thing when I have the freedom to do it.

Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

I think the challenge sometimes is not just knowing when you could or should insert your fill in order to frame the lyrics nicely, but getting on the same page with all of the other instrumentalists who are trying to do the same thing. It sounds like you have a lot of players that will step in when they get the opportunity. Keeping good eye contact with the other players is a good way to communicate who gets each verse, or maybe just agree on an order for the fills in each song ahead of time.
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Landon Roberson · From: Church Hill, Tennessee, USA

Thanks everyone for the information and advice. Herby I did get the backup course from you and it has helped but what I am trying to figure out is how to come up with this stuff on my own instead of memorizing what someone else plays. I am trying to figure out if there is a pattern or method to playing backup. I guess I just need a lot more practice and it will come to me as I get better. I have only been playing steel about a year now and have made some pretty good progress. I guess the more licks and runs I find and practice then one day it will click and I will know how and where to use them. At my church the piano is the main instrument and everything else is kind of background fill in. I just started looking at Dick Sexton's harmonized scales and I think this may help a lot as I get more familiar with the scales and where they fit. Again thanks for the help and any more suggestions you can give will be greatly appreciated.

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Landon: Forget the memorization of the work product of other players..........and scales. That's a gross waste of YOUR time and it kills YOUR creative genius.

Listen extremely close to each line of the song. At the end of the first vocal phrase, there will likely be a pause. Why not fill the natural pause with part of that same vocal phrase. You know it fits, just alter it ever so slightly.

If you know it's about go from an F to a B flt...
simply walk the notes up to that next position. A single note run or two notes but not necessarily a BIG FAT CHORD slide.

It takes TIME! You can't learn all of this stuff over night. Those of us who learned years ago, had to struggle juse like you're doing today. As suggested.......play along with every GOOD record you can find. After awhile, you'll see what the other guy is doing and it will start to come easier for you. GOOD LUCK!

Roger Kelly · From: Bristol,Tennessee

Landon says.... "At my church the piano is the main instrument and everything else is kind of background fill in".

Basically, you are in a situation where there's NO holes to fill.

With six lead instruments and a Piano/Organ players that would just as soon do it all themselves, (if they are like my Church's Piano and Organ players.)....you're not going to be doing much fill.

You may need to think about starting a Gospel Trio or Quartet made up of some of those musicians and play during the Offeratory or as a special event during the service. I have done this before at my Church...with just a three piece.. Bass, Rhythm Guitar, and Steel. Both Bass and Guitar players did the singing I did the intros and fill.

Unless you get in a band, Gospel or Country, where you have a singer and say, no more than two other lead players, along with a Bass and Drum you might THEN have an opportunity to sharpen your backup skills in a live situation.

You are playing the GFI I used to own and you are doing very good and are quick to learn. You know that if there was a quicker way to learn all the things that you want to learn on steel I'd be the first to tell you all I know. I can tell you it never came easy for me. I spent many hours listing to Eddie Arnold, Webb Pierce, Hank Thompson, Hank Williams, just to name a few, and tried copying the way their Steel Players did it. Most just played around the Melody is what I call it, bits and pieces of the Melody you might say. There is no subtitute for practice.

Everyone who has answered your post is trying to give you some good advice in my opinion. What you take from these responses is, of course, up to you.

I have always been ready to help you or anyone else, learn in any way I can. You have my phone number if I can be of any further help to you.

Ben Feher · From: Austin TX

It sound like you are not confident on the Steel yet.

If that is so, then backup at a curch is a great place to practice! As many have pointed out, the posibilities of you really "standing out" are very low but instead of taking that as a problem think of it as a benifit! You'll blend in a lot more, mistakes wont be as aparant and you can "feel out" what you want to play. As long as your not being obnoxious, I'm sure that no one will mind a few sour notes here and there, and chances are you are being covered up by other instraments anyhow. But if you're just starting out thats not a bad situation to be in.

I am a huge proponent of people playing live before they are "ready," its an amazing experence. Be humble and don't worry if you are not "leading the band" or having really clear fills or leads. You'll get a great expereince playing live. You may outgrow it but it is a wonderful expereince to get a feel for this amazing instrument we all play.

And I agree 100% with everything Ray Montee has said. Don't get too caught up in what is right and proper, just play from your heart. This may be the best opertunity you ever have to just "contribute something" to a musical experience. Even if it is a little cluttered at times...

Landon Roberson · From: Church Hill, Tennessee, USA

Thanks again for all of the good advice. Ray you are right I want to learn it on my own instead of memorizing everybody elses work. Roger you fully understand my situation with the piano player and Ben you hit the nail on the head with all of your post. I am not confident on the Steel yet but gaining confidence everyday the more I practice. I try to pratice about 2 or more hours everyday. I do think that playing in church will help me with my playing and my confidence and with everyone else playing I can just blend in and if I am not sure of a song not be heard to much. I guess for now it will be better to just pad chords to the songs and every once and awhile try some small fills. Maybe one day I will get brave enough to ask to do an intro or turn around. Thanks again for all the help, this forum is the greatest place for a beginner like me to learn hoe to play and the people here are not to proud to help us beginners.

Ben Feher · From: Austin TX

Something else to think about:

Is the issue that while you are listening to a song you can't hear something in your mind that you want to play on steel? Or is it that you hear something in your head but don't know how to play it on the steel?

Two very different problems with very different solutions.

Landon Roberson · From: Church Hill, Tennessee, USA

Ben I can hear in my head what I want to play I just cannot play what I hear on the steel. I can sit down and figure out what to play but it takes awhile. I hope in the future I can play what I hear on the spot so when they start playing the hymn I can just jump in and play. I know this will take time to learn enough to do this I was just wondering if there are things I need to be practicing that will help me in this learning so I am not just spinning my wheels while I practice.

Landon Roberson · From: Church Hill, Tennessee, USA

A Bump for more advice.

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