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Topic: Adventures in Rodding |
Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 31 Dec 2011 3:52 pm |
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I'm re-rodding a 6x5 SD12 MSA to ext E9th. It's been interesting. Kind of like building one of those ship models inside a bottle. I'm following the rodding charts for similar all-pull guitars with similar copdents. One question I would like to ask. It is easier if you start with the pulls closest to the changer and work your way out? or is it easier to start at P1 and work your way in? It sure gets crowded in there.
This experience makes me greatly appreciate what guys like Jim Palenscar, Ricky Davis and Mickey Adams can do.
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Last edited by Tom Wolverton on 1 Jan 2012 9:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gary Cosden
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2011 4:47 pm
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| A while back I tore down,cleaned ,a reassembled my Sierra. When I re-rodded it I started at the end opposite the changer. I remember thinking half way through that it would be a lot easier the other way round. I would start from the changer end next time! Just my 2 cents. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2011 5:16 pm
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I recently re-rodded the knee levers on a 1977 MSA. Here's my chart. Hope it helps.
The guitar was double raise, double lower. "A" is the changer hole closest to the top of the guitar, and "1" is the bell crank hole closest to the crossrod.
When doing a complete re-rod, I start with the shortest rods.
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Bill Moore
From:
Manchester, Michigan
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Posted 31 Dec 2011 5:29 pm
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| Like BOb suggested, start with the shortest rods first. It's also a good idea to do all the raises first too. So, do all the raises, starting with the the shortest rods. Then do the lowers, also beginning with the shortest rods. Doing it this way gives a bit room to maneuver the rods into place, and makes it easier to see what you are doing. |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2011 6:49 pm
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| For whatever reason, I usually start with the E9th pedals- ABC- as they are all raises anyway. The reason to do the raises first is the lower rods will end up on top of the raise rods obscuring your vision- unless it's a push-pull. I will install and balance the changes on each pedal or lever separately otherwise I'll have to come back and do it later. After I've done that, I'll then adjust the tension on the lower return spring to make sure that there is enough tension to not only return the changer finger after being lowered but also just enough to keep the lower finger back while the raise is being activated. |
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Mickey Adams
From:
Bandera Texas
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Posted 31 Dec 2011 7:50 pm
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Tom....!! 2 trains of thought!
Ive gotten in the habit of rodding from low string to high string...Mike taught me to do each crosshaft at at a time, but I have since changed my thought process..
First and foremost is to have an accurate map of all changes for a specific string..Decide which ones need the longest and shortest travels, and map the bellcrank positions for the rods...this way I never wind up having to rod under, or over something thats already been installed...!
_________________
ARTIST RELATIONS: MSA GUITARS
2017 MSA LEGEND XL D10, S10, Studio Pro S12 EXE9
Mullen G2, Rittenberry S10, Infinity D10, Zumsteel 8+9
Anderson, Buscarino, Fender, Roman Guitars, Sarno Octal, Revelation Preamps, BJS BARS, Lots of Blackface Fenders! |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 1 Jan 2012 12:51 am Thanks.
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Thanks for the tips. And I, of course, did it backwards. I think I'll strip it all down again and start over. Your suggestions make a lot more sense than what I was doing.
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To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 1 Jan 2012 6:48 am
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Bob, Jim, Mickey, I can see the line of thinking in each one of your methods. Looks like I can use something from every method. This is a useful thread for sure!
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BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 1 Jan 2012 9:17 am
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Now for a really basic question.
Do you string up the guitar first? Or after rodding? Or maybe during?
_________________
To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 1 Jan 2012 9:25 am
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And a not-so basic question. It is tempting to want to fan out the rods a bit as they go from the changer to the P1 end. There certainly is room to do this, but I'm thinking that is a bad idea as it gets crowded. Best to keep the rods as parallel as possible.
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To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 1 Jan 2012 9:29 am
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I'd string first. String tension keeps the return (and helper, if equipped) springs back where they belong.
I find it amazing that this thread showed up just before I was gonna start it myself.
I find it awesome that my question comes preanswered.
I started out trying to rearrange one shaft at a time. Didn't take me long to strip the entire neck (I am converting my C6 to a truncated Bb6: If someone has a Bb6 they wanna trade for an MSA Classic D-10, I can put it right back to C6)
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jack Strayhorn
From:
Winston-Salem, NC
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Posted 1 Jan 2012 5:15 pm
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| I always begin with all pulls on string #1 and work across to string #10. With each string I begin with raises and with the ones that may be in the first or second position in the finger. This proved to be the fastest and avoided things being in your way. It also helps keep rods in alignment. I trained other employees to work this way as well. Don't really remember, but I guess Ron Lashley Sr. taught me this habit. It served me well for 12 yrs. |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 3 Jan 2012 7:47 am
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Thanks everyone for your help. I stripped it all down and then built a rodding fixture so I could rod it all up with it strung up.
I looks to me that an unwound string typically requires more axial displacement to acheive a given pitch change over a wound string. So pulls for P1 or P2 might use different bellcrank holes (the plain string further from the cross-shaft than a wound string). As you can tell, I'm really green at this. : )
_________________
To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2012 8:10 am
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Tom...is this steel for you? If so....cool!
What's your copedent? |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 3 Jan 2012 9:04 am
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Rick, not for me. My son wants an E9th PSG to try out. And I wanted to try experimenting with an MSA. Nice machine but not light weight. (he's young and strong). : )
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To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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Bill Moore
From:
Manchester, Michigan
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Posted 3 Jan 2012 9:24 am
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| Tom, the unwound string needs less travel than a wound string of the same gauge. Probably you only need to decide, plain or wound, for the 6th string. If you are not planning to lower the 6th sting a whole tone, the wound works fine. If you are lowering it, go with a plain string. I lower mine and I prefer a .022 plain string for the 6th. |
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Mickey Adams
From:
Bandera Texas
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Posted 8 Jan 2012 7:05 pm
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Yes, string it first...!!
_________________
ARTIST RELATIONS: MSA GUITARS
2017 MSA LEGEND XL D10, S10, Studio Pro S12 EXE9
Mullen G2, Rittenberry S10, Infinity D10, Zumsteel 8+9
Anderson, Buscarino, Fender, Roman Guitars, Sarno Octal, Revelation Preamps, BJS BARS, Lots of Blackface Fenders! |
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