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Topic: Msa Pullers Slipping On Shaft |
Brian Henry
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Posted 27 Dec 2011 12:08 pm |
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What is the best way to stop MSA pullers from slipping on the round shafts. I cannot tighten them any more!
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LOOKOUT MOUNTAIN GEORGIA |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2011 12:58 pm
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tbh.. NEVER had a problem with pullers slipping on the shaft of any MSA I have owned.. IMHO its not a common problem..
I would imagine a new set of bellcranks would do the trick...
Once they START slipping around the steel cross shaft, aluminum material is removed from the hole, and they may not tighten up again...
On the cheap, you could drill a small hole through the bellcrank and on into the shaft, thread the hole in the bellcrank and put an Allen head screw in it.. The tip of the Allen screw would "seat" into the shaft, preventing it from turning.. Contact Mike Yahl.. He's a great machinist of steel guitar parts, and is full of innovative ideas,, He'll set you up... bob
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2011 6:47 pm MSA pullers slipping on shaft.
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I have never had that problem on either of my MSA's. Someone may have over tightened it in working on it or, It could be an added lever and there was a machining mistake when the slot was cut for relief for the screw tightening to grip the shaft. Whatever the problem. The drill and tap and set screw may help. The only other cure would be. Loosen the cap screw and make a shim out of a piece of pop or beer can and fit it around the shaft for a tighter squeeze. Or take the cross rod out and take hacksaw and file and cut the slott wider so the cap screw can squeeze the clamp tighter around the cross shaft.
Good Luck and Happy Steelin |
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Curt Langston
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Posted 27 Dec 2011 7:04 pm
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tb, cut a sliver of a coke can (with scissors) the same width as the bellcrank and only long enough for ONE wrap around the shaft. This way you can fill the space that has worn on the cranks.
This works, and does not weaken the cross shaft.
Last edited by Curt Langston on 27 Dec 2011 7:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Richard Keller
From:
Deer Creek, Illinois, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2011 7:05 pm
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I did have this problem with some of the knee lever brackets that attached to the round cross shafts on my 1974 MSA. I fixed the problem by buying some new brackets from Michael Yahl at http://www.psgparts.com
Michael has a stronger bracket, he has improved the original design and they do not slip. His prices are reasonable and he is a great person to work with. |
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Ray Anderson
From:
Jenkins, Kentucky USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2011 7:22 pm MSApullers
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I don't know about guitar levers ut that is a basic lever arm design and I run across this in my line of work. My remedy is taking a dremel or similar tool and an abrassive wheel or disc and take some of the "jaw" ( the part the bolt goes through) and remove some of the metal and that in turn gives a greater clamp to the "jaw" making the hole smaller. It doesn't take much at all. Easy fix.  |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 27 Dec 2011 11:57 pm
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I'll add another vote for talking to Michael. The slippage is known, and he has another design for the bellcrank
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Paul Redmond
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2011 1:06 am
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This is a common problem on all round-shaft MSA's. The most common cause is the use of the "outermost" holes in the crank to activate a pull. That puts a lot of torque on the "clamp" area at the shaft. That area was inherently weak anyhow, and once the aluminum has been stretched beyond its limits, there is a great reduction in clamping force. I hate to even suggest this, but I will because it usually does work. Go to an auto parts store or machine shop supply house and get hold of some "valve grinding" compound aka lapping compound. If you have any friends in the machine trades, it would behoove you to mooch a teaspoonful from them. If not, you will own a can of this stuff for about 300 or 400 years!!! I would suggest spreading the crank in place and floating the compound into the aperture formed. Re-clamp the crank and you should have solved the slippage problem. It's admittedly a very crude way of resolving the problem, but it works most of the time, so how can one argue with a success rate like that?
PRR |
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Dale Ware
From:
Texas, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 30 Dec 2011 9:44 am
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| I have had probably at least 20 MSA Classics and have had this problem on only one of the guitars. It had 5 cracked bell cranks. Someone had overtightened them and they cracked from the inner side of the ell to the center hole. I took it to Jim Smith and he replaced them and I had no more problems with it. It is very difficult to see the cracks and you may need a light and magnifying glass. Dale |
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Brian Henry
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Posted 30 Dec 2011 6:02 pm
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Time for me to 'fess up. I wanted to lighten the guitar, and although a number of wise forum members told me not to use aluminum shafts instead of steel. So I went ahead got some nice light aluminum shaft and put it in the lathe and polished it "gently" with some 1500 grit - I then used some fine steel wool and boy did they shine. I could see my face in it. I could not get the pullers to clamp down. So I replaced the steel shafts and they all tightned up very tightly. In my zeal for a shine i think I took off topo many thousands of an inch for the pullers to clamp tightly. Lesson learned - perhaps I should just stick to peddling em instead of meddling with them!! 
_________________
LOOKOUT MOUNTAIN GEORGIA
Last edited by Brian Henry on 30 Dec 2011 7:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 30 Dec 2011 7:16 pm
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why polish something that only you will see, and then only while casing or uncasing your guitar?
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2011 7:52 pm
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| Aluminum shafts could work if they were the right diameter and weren't so shiney - leave some roughness for the bellcranks to grip into. I wouldn't use aluminum tho cause they'll flex under tension way more than hard steel.It's been argued that it's an infinitely repeatable flex and can be compensated for but that goes out the window when you have interacting changes and/or splits between 2 pedals on the same strings across 2 flexing cross shafts because they don't de-flex with the same tension as they initially flex.Even square aluminum cross shafts have that problem and I ran into it on my Sierra when I was double-lowering a wound string on 2 different knee levers and one or the other was always flat depending on which lower I started with. The best for all that is hex chrome steel cross shafts and half-hex stamped steel bellcranks that clamp on from the side - no slippage or flexing there. In your case I'd eat the weight and go back to hard steel cross shafts on that MSA.It won't slip and it'll play in tune better.The mechanics of a pedal steel are squirrely enough already.That's a naturally heavy guitar but don't forget you only have to lift it for a couple minutes but you have to play it in tune and with no mechanical issues all night. If you want a significantly lighter guitar get an Excel,GFI or Williams keyless. |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 31 Dec 2011 2:38 am
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Good point, Michael. Steel is 3x stiffer than alu. Best to keep those MSA cross shafts as steel. The MSA is a rather well engineered guitar.
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To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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