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Topic: Threading Pull Rod On Emmons LeGrande III |
Paul King
From:
Gainesville, Texas, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2011 6:11 pm |
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| I ordered three pull trane assy. from Emmons Guitar Company. I am cutting one rod shorter which means it will need to be threaded. Anyone know what size die I would need for the threads? Any help would be appreciated. |
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Jack Strayhorn
From:
Winston-Salem, NC
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Posted 28 Dec 2011 6:27 pm
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| 4-40 |
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Paul King
From:
Gainesville, Texas, USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2011 3:31 am
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| Thanks Jack for the reply. I have an email that said a 5/40 so they are very close. |
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Ransom Beers
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Posted 29 Dec 2011 5:38 am
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| What size are you using,3/32 -1/8??,for 3/32 rod you need 6-40,for 1/8 rod use a 6-32 die,the thread will be a bit small on the 1/8 thrd. but will work as the rod is bigger than the die,(here again be careful as the die being smaller will break the rod if not)6/32 will work on a 3/32 rod but the thrd. will not be full enough to hold the tuning nut,4-40 is a tad small but will work,just be careful when thrding as it will have a tendency to break the rod because the rod is bigger than the thrd. die.(from an old retired machinist of 37 1/2 yrs.) |
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Jack Strayhorn
From:
Winston-Salem, NC
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Posted 29 Dec 2011 5:52 am
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| Emmons rods are 3/32". We used to open the die as much as possible. Thread slowly, use lots of oil. Remember, this rod is stainless and hard to cut. |
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Ransom Beers
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Posted 29 Dec 2011 7:57 am
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| Yikes,stainless,yes follow Mr.Strayhorn's advice otherwise you'll be buying either a new rod or die or both,lots of cutting oil should be used & slow is the order of the day when threading stainless. |
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jay thompson
From:
east peoria, il USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2011 8:28 am Emmons pull rods
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I believe you will find Emmons pull rods are 0.109 or
7/64" dia. and are threaded 5-40. Actual measurments from an actual, unused, Emmons pull rod.
5-40 #2576A135, 11.80, adjustable die from McMaster Carr.
Regards, Jay Thompson
Last edited by jay thompson on 29 Dec 2011 4:12 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Ransom Beers
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Posted 29 Dec 2011 8:48 am
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| Very possible.I haven't seen any Emmons rods to know what exactly they are.A 5-40 die might be a bit of a search to find as they are not in a standard set or anything you can buy at the local Loews or I don't recall seeing any in a standard set of thread dies but anything is possible. |
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Jack Strayhorn
From:
Winston-Salem, NC
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Posted 29 Dec 2011 9:14 am
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| Right, the rods are 7/64". I do not remember using a 5-40 die, but it has been a while. |
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Jack Strayhorn
From:
Winston-Salem, NC
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Posted 29 Dec 2011 9:24 am
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| I used to order the dies by the dozens because they didn't last long. 5-40 is probably correct because 4-40 would be too small for the 7/64 rod. The rods were originaly nickel ply but this material became unavailable, thus we had to switch to stainless. Pedal rods were originaly nickel ply with slightly less diameter using a rolled thread. This too had to change because of material availability. |
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Ransom Beers
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Posted 29 Dec 2011 9:50 am
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Yes,I'm thinking 5-40 or 6-40 would be the die to use for a full thrd. on a 7/64ths rod,at least 75%.I guess then the tuning nuts would be drilled to 3/32?Or smaller?
This is a 5-40 die price,a bit pricy just for one pull rod,yikes!!!!!
Die, 5-40 Thread
Part Number: 2847
Weight: 0.03 lb
Price: $15.95
Quantity: |
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jay thompson
From:
east peoria, il USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2011 4:14 pm Emmons Pull Rods
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| Bump |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 29 Dec 2011 4:19 pm
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You can buy about any size die you want from warehouse tool co. www.wttool.com for a reasonable price. Otherwise, try www.amazon.com.
I bought my 4-40 and 5-40 dies from my local Ace Hdwe. store. |
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Paul King
From:
Gainesville, Texas, USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2011 5:33 pm
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| I bought a 4-40 die today. A good friend of mine who has a machine shop took the rod to thread it for me. He is going to put it on his lathe to put the threads on. I tried doing it by hand and messed up a spare rod. That material was very hard to work with. Thanks for all of the input on this topic. Just a good reason why this forum is such a great place to visit. |
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Scott Swartz
From:
St. Louis, MO
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Posted 29 Dec 2011 8:19 pm
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My trick to make this job easier is to cut the rod 1/8 inch longer than needed, then using a disc sander put a 1/8 long conical chamfer on the end of the rod. The small end of chamfer at the end should be about half of the full rod diameter.
This gives a very gradual start to the thread cutting so its easy to keep the die straight and cutting properly, and the die is cutting easily by the time you get to the full rod diameter.
Obviously after completing the threaded length needed you cut off the extra 1/8 inch of rod.
_________________
Scott Swartz
Steeltronics - Steel Guitar Pickups
www.steeltronics.com |
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Paul King
From:
Gainesville, Texas, USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2011 6:24 am
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| That is a good idea Scott. Thanks for your advice. |
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Ransom Beers
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Posted 30 Dec 2011 6:38 am
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| Jerry Overstreet wrote: |
You can buy about any size die you want from warehouse tool co. www.wttool.com for a reasonable price. Otherwise, try www.amazon.com.
I bought my 4-40 and 5-40 dies from my local Ace Hdwe. store. |
You were lucky in that they carry them.4-40 is a pretty common thread size but some places don't stock them.It's the oddball sizes that are not so common & I guess the reason they're not included in a standard tap & die set.But if you can find them fairly easy I say buy a few extras,never know when you'll need them.
Putting a lead in chamfer on the end is a very good idea & one that all machine shops employ(at least the ones I have worked in). |
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Jack Strayhorn
From:
Winston-Salem, NC
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Posted 30 Dec 2011 10:33 am
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| Just got through using a 5-40 die and really it doesn't cut enough. It works but I would suggest trying to close the die. |
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Ransom Beers
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2011 12:01 am
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I've threaded a few rods and only thing I had trouble with was holding it to keep it from turning. I have a vice but didn't want to put metal to metal and scratch the rods up so tried using wood blocks. Just couldn't get them tight enough to keep rod from turning. Wound up just putting in vice but sure scratched up rods. Anyone have a better way. I'm not much of a machinest.
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
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Posted 31 Dec 2011 6:04 am
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| I put my rods in a loose 1/2" drill chuck with a through hole in the center, and clamp that chuck into a vise. You can also thread your stainless with a 5-40 die first to start and clean that up with a 4-40 die. Also, thread your rods BEFORE you cut to final length....you may need a re-do. Stainless is tough! |
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Ransom Beers
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Posted 31 Dec 2011 6:40 am
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| Henry Matthews wrote: |
| I've threaded a few rods and only thing I had trouble with was holding it to keep it from turning. I have a vice but didn't want to put metal to metal and scratch the rods up so tried using wood blocks. Just couldn't get them tight enough to keep rod from turning. Wound up just putting in vice but sure scratched up rods. Anyone have a better way. I'm not much of a machinest. |
Try using some sandpaper about 220 grit in the vise jaws,if it mars it you can polish it out with some 800-1000 grit paper. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 1 Jan 2012 3:14 pm
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| My Grandfather was the top machinist at the old Cleveland Pneumatic Tool Corp. He made the very tips of nosecones for Nasa, mighta still been the NACA back then. He started showing me how to do "things mechanical" when I was 5,,,, sheesh! That's 60 years ago. He was very particular about the way he used threading tooling. "!/4 to 1/3 turn Johnny! Then back off the die to break off the burr." He'd set me up with these little "jobs," so I'd be outa his hair whilst he relaxed and smoked a cigar butt stuck on a toothpick! Grandma wouldn't let him puff upstairs. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 1 Jan 2012 5:02 pm Threading pull rod on Emmons Le Grand III
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| 3/32 rod uses 4-40 7/64 rod uses 5-40 and 1/8 uses either 6-40 or 6-32. I have made rods for Emmons Steels for a friend of mine who repairs steels. For adding rods I have found that the best source is 7/64 drill rod. Use 5-40 die. These have a ground finish and are not tempered so you can do what is needed cut, file, thread with standard tools. Yes use a good heavy oil and back the die up every 1/4 to 1/2 turn if you don't it will tear the threads. Once you get the threads cut. brush the threads good with a wire brush. This smoothes the threads so it won't tear the nylon nut when you thread it on. Good Luck and Happy Steelin. |
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Paul King
From:
Gainesville, Texas, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2012 10:27 am
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| You guys are great. The rod is finished and I have it installed on my steel. Everything is working great. |
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