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Topic: Lap steel bridges and nuts |
David Goodale
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2011 9:50 am |
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I built a lap steel awhile back (6 string) and I've never been quite happy with it. The problems are the bridge and nut. I'm wondering what builders on the forum use, and where they source them.
A Merry Christmas to all. Dave |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 25 Dec 2011 10:22 am
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| I use threaded rod and threaded tube. You can set the string spacing to whatever you want and they stay there, and since the strings are just resting on the round top surface they don't stick. A regular nut holds the strings and the tension doesn't equalize until way after you've tuned it, which is why they put roller bridges and roller nuts on pedal steels and guitars with whammy pedals. |
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Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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Posted 25 Dec 2011 10:43 am
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What did you use for nut and bridge? What is it about your setup that is giving you trouble?
There are tons of ways to make a good and serviceable nut and bridge. One thing to keep in mind is that you need a clean string exit / break angle where the last contact point is at the very edge. If not you can have buzzing and unpleasant sitar like tones as a result.
Alan's suggestion is a good one as with round stock you don't / can't have a flat spot to worry about. And for types made from other materials like angle, channel, or rectangle forms, here are a generic drawing that helps demonstrate a proper break point.
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David Goodale
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2011 10:54 am
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| I guess I was assuming my problems were with my string grooves (and exit). Do you guys feel that getting the tops of all the different gauge strings on a flat plane is critical to playability? |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 25 Dec 2011 11:18 am
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No. The gauges of the string increase from treble to bass, so they're naturally in line at the tops. The difference in height between the tops of the 1st and 8th string is so small in relation to the amount that the string is depressed by the weight of the bar that it's insignificant. Touching the strings with the bar automatically brings them level.
The big advantage of threaded bar is that you can alter the spacing of the strings any time you want.
Most string breakage is at the nut or bridge, where the string is forced to go over a sharp angle. What's more, as you tighten the string the location of the sharp angle moves, so that that part of the string which was forced at an angle is now forced straight again, and a different part of the string becomes forced at the angle. This weakens the whole area of the string around the bridge. What's more, each time you pluck the string the part of the string touching the bridge is held firm while the rest of the string bends back and forth, and this happens hundreds of times a second. Eventually metal fatigue sets in. With a round top to the bridge there is no severe angle.
Plus, with a regular bridge the string is in contact with the bridge for only a fraction of an inch, whereas with a round-topped bridge the string is in contact for a greater distance. This imparts more vibration to the body of the instrument, introducing more overtones, which make for a better tone on a steel guitar.
I would also recommend through-the-body anchoring of the strings. Strings sound best if they go round the bridge and then straight through the body of the guitar, being anchored at the back. That improves sustain. A lot of regular guitars are made that way nowadays, with no neck joint and anchored at the back, precisely to give more sustain. |
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Jonathan Lam
From:
Brooklyn, NY
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Posted 25 Dec 2011 12:06 pm
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| Can anyone post pictures of their homebrew bridge/nut solutions? |
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David Goodale
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2011 12:46 pm
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| Thanks for the info Gents. |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2011 3:34 pm
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| David Goodale wrote: |
| Do you guys feel that getting the tops of all the different gauge strings on a flat plane is critical to playability? |
Depending on the player, this can be a critical aspect, and knowing what tuning and gauges are permanent is important in determining slot depth. If you can align your tuning pegs, or at leat the windings, so the strings are perfectly straight when passing at the nut and don't need slots, or minimal grooving, I find it better. Similarly at the bridge, but not as crucial if the ferrals are in line with your preferred string spacing. A threaded bar can limit your ability to fine tune your spacing.
I also prefer a sharper relief/fall at the bridge, a quarter-round is nice as a round bridge/nut will often give a difference in tone versus a sharp edge. |
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Randy Cordle
From:
Illinois, USA
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 25 Dec 2011 9:52 pm
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Remember, when it all comes down to it, a lap steel is basically a plank with strings stretched across it and an electric pickup. The rest is largely appearance. I once built a lap steel in a weekend. The most time-consuming job was waiting for the paint to dry.
Beginners usually use whatever parts they can put their hands on, which are usually left over from regular electric guitars. |
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Rick Winfield
From:
Pickin' beneath the Palmettos
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Posted 26 Dec 2011 12:50 am Bsg Steel Guitars
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I bought some parts from BSG guitars, when building a homemade lap steel. Specically, the bride and nut, used for Don's 12 string practice board, which are grooved. They work fine, but the spacing at the bridge and nut are the same.
Still, I'm happy with the set-up
Great guy to do business with. too. 
Rick |
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John Tipka
From:
Reynoldsburg,OH
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Posted 26 Dec 2011 4:40 am
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I used 3/8" diameter stainless steel bar stock for the bridge and nut on my home-brew double. It works just as Alan has described.
http://www.juststeelguitar.com/images/P1010055.JPG
John
Last edited by John Tipka on 27 Dec 2011 4:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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David Goodale
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2011 7:17 am
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Nice double neck John. Looks great.
I wonder if anyone has used any of these inexpensive bridge/nut pairs you see online such as this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/360373873688?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
It's not so much that I don't think I can make a workable bridge and nut. It's more a case of picking your spots. (I'm remodeling an old farmhouse,build my own furniture,make my own tube amps, wrench my own motorcycles etc..) There are only so many hours in the day.
I think I'll make my existing lap steel (my 1st) playable with some round stock, but for the next one, I'd like to buy something ready made.
Again, thanks for all the input. A real nice forum you have here. |
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norm mcdaniel
From:
waco tx
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Posted 26 Dec 2011 8:07 am Nuts and bridges
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Hi David I have used the bridges and nuts that you show in the picture and they work great Ill do it again if I could find them for an eight string. As for using 3/8 threaded ss rod it does work great as well, I have used it several times. Go for it
Good Luck
Norm in Waco Texas   |
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Jerry Recktenwald
From:
Louisville KY
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Posted 27 Dec 2011 3:27 pm
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Here are some pictures of my builds, and bridges . The 6 string have a 3/8" solid brass rod and the double neck 8 strings have a 1/2" solid brass rods , at the nut and the bridge. My tail pieces are made from aluminum.
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Mark Mansueto
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 6 Jan 2012 7:27 am
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I've used different nuts and bridges/saddles dependent on the guitar. On acoustic lap steels I've used bone on one and aluminum angle on another and wood with fretwire on another. On solid bodies I've used an angle nut with a standard wrap around bridge or angle bridge. All worked well as long as they are set up correctly. Like Tom mentioned, having proper approach and departure angles is important and I always have nice a smooth and rounded surface for the string to ride on. Tonewise the simple aluminum angle seems to work well... low mass and good vibration transfer to the neck or body.
Here's a post that shows a wood nut and bridge that I used on my cigar box lap steel. FYI, Rance White uses this concept on his weiddenborn bridges.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=191156&highlight=
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 6 Jan 2012 4:38 pm
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Jason Lollar of Lollar Pickups shows how to make nuts and bridges from steel angle in this blog entry:
http://www.lollarguitars.com/blog/2009/11/lap-steel-modification-for-lollar-supro-pickup/
With this project he runs the strings through the body. If you want to do that you can get the ferrules that mount on the top of the body from Stew-Mac (the ferrules on the bottom of the body as used on telecasters are easy to find).
My Deeks 8 string lap steel has an interesting bridge/tailpiece arrangement. He uses 1" aluminum angle for the bridge part and 3/4" aluminum angle for the tailpiece part. The part of the aluminum angle which mount to the body overlap, with the 1" angle on the bottom and 3/4" angle on top of it. Yes it does look like something that you made in your garage but it works great. (I will be using that style bridge on my next Rogue EA-3 conversion project.)
A lot of people here use 3/8" brass rod for nuts and bridges, raised up on some sort of base.
As for break angle, with regular guitar nuts it is important that the slot be sloped downward with the fretboard side being slightly higher; if the slot is completely parallel to the neck you will get the buzzing sitar effect. Steel guitars usually have much taller nuts which changes the equation a bit as illustrated by the drawing on Tom's post.
Steve Ahola
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Recordings on electric guitar:
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Don McGregor
From:
Memphis, Tennessee
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Posted 7 Jan 2012 3:57 am
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Ryan Rukavena makes some wonderful bridges and nuts, and even pickups, as well as turning out some wild and drop dead gorgeous lap steels.
He occasionally puts a few of these parts up on Ebay, but is always open to making whatever you need.
I think his prices are very reasonable.
http://rukavinaguitars.com/ |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Michael Maddex
From:
Northern New Mexico, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2012 4:39 pm old thread of possible interest
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David G, here's an old thread on (almost) this subject:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1103947&highlight=
There might be an idea or two there that you can use. HTH.
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David Goodale
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2012 6:02 pm
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Yes, I saw a few of those Ryan Rukavena bridges some time ago on ebay, and didn't pull the trigger at the time. I just assumed he didn't sell them anymore.
This has turned into a great and very informative thread and I appreciate the continued feedback.
I went with a bone nut, and a piece of 3/8 round stainless steel set into a wood holder routed to accept it with a core box bit. I'm pretty happy with it other than just a slight "sitar like sound on the lowest string as I move towards the 12th fret.
I'm a longtime guitar player who has started in recently on lap steel as a result of a hand injury.(took 3/4" off left middle finger) Just starting to get some musical sounds out of it. |
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