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Topic: Right hand technique- index & middle finger picks |
Elizabeth Lawrence
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 20 Dec 2011 11:38 am |
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Hello,
I have been playing steel for about 6 years and currently play professionally in a few different bands. I think that lately I have been getting faster with my right hand, and my metal finger picks (I have never used different ones, ever since I began playing) are catching and hitting strings that I don't want to sound when I play quick lines.
I have never had this problem. Are my picks fitting incoorectly? I tried to adjust the fit with some pliers and now they feel a little awkward- it will take some getting used to, but maybe it will help.
I play a GFI Ultra, used to play a Lloyd Green Shobud. Maybe the smaller string spacing is something I need to get used to, even though I've had this guitar since last May. OR maybe I am just being lazy, maybe my technique is getting a little sloppy and I just need to practice a little more right hand excersizes?
Would love to hear some opinions & advice on this topic.
Thanks! :) |
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Eric Philippsen
From:
Central Florida USA
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Posted 20 Dec 2011 12:11 pm
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Here's my two cents worth, Elizabeth.
Switching to a steel with a different string spacing will definitely affect your RH technique. Your hand had been trained on spacing A and now, especially, on the quick stuff, it still thinks it's playing spacing A . But, of course, it's not. As Jeff Newman described it - your guns jam. Hello practice to change that. For some it's easier to make that change, for some it takes longer.
How you wear your picks is certainly another factor, but my guess is that you're playing faster than your RH and mind are coordinated for. Add to that the different spacing and altered picks and that's it. |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Elizabeth Lawrence
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 20 Dec 2011 1:00 pm
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Yes- the pick (especially on the middle finger) catches strings on the band at some times. very annoying. The bands of the pick are supposed to wrap around the top of the finger, and they seemed to be getting in the way. That is one of the adjustments I made to the picks, now they feel like I've never used them before.... geeze. I am hoping in time, I will get used to them again and be able to play with a little more efficiency.
Other times, I will go to strike one single string, lets say, the high B string (E9 neck), with my index or middle finger. part of the pick will go right ahead and catch the high E string along with it. The part my pick catches on is where the long "picking" part of it meets the base, off to the right side of the pick. I never mean to hit that higher string, but the pick slightly catches it. This may be something I just need to practice more often to get it down.
As far as the string spacing, I was SO excited for the GFI because I wanted that smaller spacing for more speed, and I always felt like the LDG model had spacing that was too large for my taste- but I don't know, maybe it is effecting my playing anyway... Like I said, I have been being pushed more lately with my playing, and maybe it is coming out now that I need to get more used to this spacing and practice alot to get over this! |
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Elizabeth Lawrence
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 20 Dec 2011 1:05 pm
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Above is an image of the type of picks I use on the index & middle finger, to avoid confusion. They're just the plain old metal ones. |
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Quentin Hickey
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 20 Dec 2011 1:51 pm
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Hi Elizabeth, you must be a palm muter and curl youre fingers in. Try keeping youre elbow back and square with youre body more. This will force you to straigthen out youre fingers a bit and thus less chance of the wraps on youre picks hitting the upper strings. I find that I used to do the same thing. I studied people like Joe Wright and Paul franklin etc. who pick block and tend to have "straighter" picks than say Jeff Newman. If you palm mute than the only other thing I could suggest is to fit the picks to sit out on the end of youre fingers and bend the blades down more. I think palm muters do this more. Youre going to have to adapt somehow so just experiment. Hope this helps.
Quentin
Last edited by Quentin Hickey on 20 Dec 2011 1:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 20 Dec 2011 1:54 pm
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Hi Elizabeth, I had that same problem when I adjusted my picks where they closely followed the contour of the end of my finger. I now have them a bit straighter where they protrude out a bit from the end of my finger and after I got used to it, I no longer have that problem. I use the metal picks with the double band like these.
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Quentin Hickey
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 20 Dec 2011 1:56 pm
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| Wow those are pretty neat looking picks Any! Never seem'em before. |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 20 Dec 2011 2:05 pm
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| Hmmm....I used those double band propicks and had to switch because the band near the pick would catch on strings, and they are thin and will bend under after a while.......the Jeff Newman picks and the National NP2 picks have only a single band but are stiff enough to hold on and not bend... |
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Eric Philippsen
From:
Central Florida USA
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Posted 20 Dec 2011 2:20 pm
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The "plain old metal" picks you describe as using, are they Dunlops?
<added>. A closer look at the pic shows that they are Dunlops with the outward flange on the bottom of the ring. Ouch. That flange is notorious for catching adjacent strings. I remember in one of his classes Jeff Newman walking down the rows of steel players checking everybody's picks. If someone was wearing Dunlops he would tell them to get rid of them.
National picks, get 'em, and the older they are the better. (Strictly as a side note, I've found a lot of sweet old National picks in lap steel cases). Or the old BJ (Buddy-Jeff) chrome-plated picks that Newman sold. That is, if you can get anybody to part with a pair.
Just my opinion.
Last edited by Eric Philippsen on 20 Dec 2011 4:52 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Larry Baker
From:
Columbia, Mo. U.S.A.
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Posted 20 Dec 2011 3:07 pm
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I use the ProPicks like the one that Andy shows. I like them a lot, and is all that I use now.
_________________
Mullen G2 SD10 3 & 5 The Eagle
NV112 amp===Earnie Ball V.P. |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 20 Dec 2011 7:21 pm
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I've used Dunlops for ages and have had the "string catching" problem only one time. I had tried to bend the blades around my fingertips more than I had done before. (I had seen a picture of one of my favorite players and was trying to set my picks up to match his.) Bad idea.
After analyzing what was happening, I found the bands were now too close to the strings with the blade wrapped around my fingertip so much. Straightening the blade a bit more solved the issue...no more catching.
Elizabeth, you might try adjusting the pick blades to extend a little farther than they are at present.
One other thought....if you are palm blocking, you might be rolling your picking hand a bit too far to the left. This could cause your fingers to curl more, thus bringing the bands closer to the strings. Rolling more to the right causes you to extend your fingers, and thus keep the bands away from the strings.
_________________
Best regards,
Mike |
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Elizabeth Lawrence
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 21 Dec 2011 7:41 am
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Yea, I do palm mute, and alot of these answers are making alot of sense!
One of my picks is a national, I believe the other is a dunlop...? Will definitely check that out though.
Elbow positioning, making sure my palm muting doesn't roll too far left, and the pick blades- I think mine are definitely too curved, especially after messing with them the other day. All these things I think I need to adjust.
This forum is awesome!!! Thank you all for these great responses. I had to leave my steel in Boston since I have a guitar & sax gig in PA this Christmas (wouldn't fit in the car  ), but can not wait to get home and practice these adjustments!! |
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Elizabeth Lawrence
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 21 Dec 2011 7:43 am
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btw... I think I might try looking for some pro picks...  |
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Roger Francis
From:
kokomo,Indiana, USA
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Walter Glockler
From:
Northern New Mexico
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Posted 21 Dec 2011 11:23 am
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| Doug, I totally agree - Kyser. |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 21 Dec 2011 12:19 pm
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Hey Doug, I'm glad someone else has the same problem with Dunlop. I can't use them at all because of the band catching on strings. I also use Kyser. I rather change guitars than picks.--Henry
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 21 Dec 2011 3:12 pm
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I'm inclined to agree with Mike W.
All I could think, when reading this thread, is, "Why are people putting their picks way past the strings?" My picks are fairly straight, but still curve a bit, and they don't stick very far beyond my fingertips, but I don't engage the string with more than 1/8" of the pick's tip. I never get remotely close to the bands.
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 21 Dec 2011 3:30 pm
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John, it's a hand posture/pick curvature thing. I was taught/had developed (sorry, been playing 31 years, can't recall how it came about) an extreme curve to the pick, around 90°, with an equally curved hand¹.
Dunlops and Propiks will sometimes catch on the edge nearest the knuckle as the string makes its widest oscillations.
EDIT: You can see this exaggerated posture in my one (thus far) attempt at a tutorial at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6DC2fAOmOc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
¹This makes the pick-string interaction the vertical "bowing" motion, as I pull the fingers up towards my hand, rather than pushing them backwards towards the next string. Lower pick noise, but brittle tone.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects
Last edited by Lane Gray on 21 Dec 2011 3:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 21 Dec 2011 3:39 pm
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Lane,
I started finger-picking 5-string in about 1960, then on to Travis picking and Blues finger-picking. Started pedal steel around '69. I tried bending my picks like that once, and only once. Found it to be incredibly awkward, and slow. I have a very strong right hand, and pick quite hard. Just now tried curving my fingers over like that. Can't pick half as fast. I guess I'm coming from the very fast 5-string style of picking. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 21 Dec 2011 4:38 pm
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This general discussion is what was hoping would result when I started this thread:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=216460&highlight=national+picks
It seems that there's a more frank discussion about the potential problem with Dunlop-type picks in this current thread.
Dunlops are far more comfortable for me but there is an issue with catching an adjacent string in error.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 21 Dec 2011 4:59 pm
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John, I wanna say (but like I said, these are three-decade old memories) that Mike A. recommended it to me for steel, although for Dobro I stick to the more common 30° bend, because power becomes crucial when trying to compete with the b@njo.
As you can see in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcJUTnw9PqA&feature=youtube_gdata_player at around 5:10, I don't have much trouble with speed (I apologize for the intonation issues at fret 17, I had a snootful of Benadryl and my sinuses and ears were buggered that night)
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Chris Brooks
From:
Providence, Rhode Island
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Posted 22 Dec 2011 10:00 am
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Elizabeth, I had this problem in the early days.
I play with fingers curled--and use the ring finger of my picking hand as well. But here is a way to modify picks to avoid the "finger band" catching on a higher string.
1. With snips, cut about 1/4" off each end of the band. With Dunlops, there is a convenient "hole" there, so part of the band is gone already.
2. File, smooth, round, and further trim the cut-off edge so that it is no longer rough.
3. With long-nosed piers, bend the new edges so they grip your finger securely but without pinching.
4. Play, experiment, and tweak to taste.
Chris |
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