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Topic: mid 70's Fender Silverface Twin needs something? |
Phil Halton
From:
Holyoke, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 27 Nov 2011 1:27 pm |
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This amp has been fully serviced by a good fender tech, but it doesn't sound very good with my Carter S10 (George L E66 pickup). I had a friend who is a Fender amp nut check it out with his 6-string electric guitar and it sounded fine - as he said, exactly the way a mid70's fender twin should sound. Then we plugged in my Carter, straight out of the guitar and with volume completely off on the twin, we got low, but audible volume out of the amp - which made me think there is some kind of mismatch going on here (that didn't happen with the 6-string, with volume off there was no sound).
I know the E66 pickups, and all steel guitar pickups are wound differently than 6-string guitar pickups, and wonder if that's a problem. Is there something I can use between my Carter and this amp to improve the situation?
Would "black facing" the amp be something that would help? is it even possible? My amp tech could do the work I'm sure. I just want to get it into a usable condition for steel, or sell it off.
BTW: the amp has been mod'd with a single Peavey 15" black widow speaker.
_________________
Disclaimer! I make no warranty on the manure I've been spreadin' around here. |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 27 Nov 2011 2:42 pm
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Are you plugging into the low level input on the Twin? The high level input combined with the hot pickup (steel pickups are about double a guitar pickup output) could overload the preamp...
You could try it through a volume pedal (preferably not a passive pedal that would steal high end) to see if lower output fixes the tone...
And I've heard, but don't know, that silverface is preferable for steel, because it is voiced a little cleaner than blackface..
My 2 cents, I'm not an expert, but have had some of the same issues, if that is the cause.. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 27 Nov 2011 2:50 pm
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The volume knob at full off position should be completely grounding all input signal regardless of the output level of the pickup.
If it sounds great with a guitar there is most likely nothing wrong with the amp and you may just need to spend some time with the EQ to dial in the sound you are after with your steel. Given the behavior you describe I wonder about the wiring - particularly the grounding - of your steel, rather than the amp...in any case I would find an amp that sounds the way I want rather than messing it up for someone else who might like it just the way it is. |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 27 Nov 2011 4:47 pm
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| Dave...duh. Of course it should be dead quiet when pot is off. thanks for catching the dumb mistake. Pot must be not quite shorting for some reason... |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 28 Nov 2011 2:40 am
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You say mid 70's..well, which year ?
They are not all the same, the later 70's used the ultra linear Output transformers, those are good amps but do not have the same Fender tone. Year matters.
I suspect this is a Master Volume amp, be sure the MV is turned ALL THE WAY UP.
Speakers matter. Twins want to see 4 ohms, do you have a 4 OHM BW 15 ?
BW's have a different tone than the JBL's or Emminence. BW's are great speakers, not an issue but they pump out a different tone.
What PUP is on your Steel ?
And of course, is the amp working properly ?
And, please stay away from Blackfacing, this amp is at least 10 years passed that window and if it does have the UL OT transformer , well unless you go backwards with a 4 ohm OT , BFacing will be just a word.
My own experience had me using a SF 70 Twin for 20 years and now using a SF 71 Twin , Blackfacing would be a negative for these amps. These days, Blackfacing is becoming a "Social" word, many folks and techs can't even describe what it means but it sounds good.
Have the amp checked out for performance, especially the volume thing with the knob at zero....Also be sure you have a quality set of tubes, the preamp can really kill the Steel with the mids if one of those front end tubes is weak or degraded.
T
t
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Mike Schwartzman
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2011 4:03 pm
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Yup...Blackfacing doesn't apply to the problem that you are currently experiencing. If a 6 stringer is sounding great and your Carter is not (given that your cables are good and bass, treble, and mid controls on the amp are set the same)...the problem may not be the amp.
Blackfacing in a nutshell: Applies only to certain silver face amps, not those with UL transformers(see Tony's post).
It simply removes the circuit changes that CBS made to amps after the transitional years ('69 or later)and restores the circuits to pre-'69 specs. 1968 models had cosmetic changes (silver faces, and drip edges), but usually the same guts as pre-'68 amps.
Depending on your personal tone preferences, many of us PSG players would be perfectly happy with the tone of a silver face Twin as is.
_________________
Emmons Push Pull, BMI, Session 400, Home of the Slimcaster Tele. |
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Phil Halton
From:
Holyoke, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2011 6:58 pm
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Hi Tony,
Well, it's a 79 twin I believe - Fender Serial# A969613 9\f13
The BW is a
Peavey 1502-4 DT(deep throw) Black Widow speaker
I don't know enough about amps to know the ohms, 8 or 4, and whether its a mismatch or not.
The amp had the pull out boost switch on the master volume, and the tech disabled that when he checked it out - replacing a few filter caps and a bad preamp tube earlier this summer.
I went to use the amp last night after posting my origional message, and the darn thing was dead. No power - at least if the power indicator light is to be believed - and no warming of the tubes. It had just worked fine for my guitar playing friend earlier in the day, and now it decided to go south. I was ready to just put the amp out on the curb, but thought better of it.
Its starting to feel like good money after bad, but I'll have it checked out again, especially the volume situation I mentioned. Is that speaker right for the output transformer? thanks for any tips.
_________________
Disclaimer! I make no warranty on the manure I've been spreadin' around here. |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2011 7:10 pm
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Phil, just a guess, but if the power went completely dead last night, the tone problems you were experiencing earlier may well have been the sign of a pending failure. Might not be catastrophic, and the amp might sound a whole lot better when fixed.
Although the 135 watt UL twin is considered less desirable, I have used one for years and think it can be a very good sounding steel amp.
Dan |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 29 Nov 2011 4:07 am
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Phil, do not put the amp on the curve ! 79 is an Ultra Linear Twin, 135 watts, nice amp...but not quite the same as previous years.
It's a fine amp and probably just needs a " more astute" tech.
Dead implies "power supply" related.
This is probably a very easy fix and not all that expensive. Frustrating for sure.
If this was on my bench I wouldn't hesitate to replace the 5 PS filters and certainly check out the rectifier which is also suspect... My experience tells me tubes and transformers are probably ok, even a bad tube works 90% of the time.
My own Twin right now (71) started yapping at me on Sat night, very loud hum. I have not done any work to this amp since I bought it summer 2010, it did have a cap job which appeared to be done cleanly and it has performed really well for over a year , but I will rebuild the entire PS before I even turn it on again. It's time to set the known reference.
Your amp is now 32 years old..It's time to set a new reference. Let me know if I can help..don't give up, it's a fine amp.
t
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2011 5:03 am
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| You need an amp tech with the feel for these things. There are enough "Fender freaks" around that one can be found. If it's dead right now, but with no fireworks, I'd say you maybe got lucky. Did "fully serviced" include new capacitors? If this things been in a closet for twenty years and now you're warming it up again repeatedly, I'd wonder about the capacitors. I assume you jiggled all the pots. |
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Phil Halton
From:
Holyoke, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2011 1:46 pm
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Okay, I'll bite, what is this "known reference" business? My tech is picking up the amp on Friday and I'll mention it to him - kind of feel him out on the subject and the rectifier etc. Hey David, how would one go about finding one of these Fender Freaks? They sound like good people to know. Actually, I think I know of one, but his repair shop is like a giant black hole - stuff goes in, but never comes out. (at least not until you pester him for six months or so).
_________________
Disclaimer! I make no warranty on the manure I've been spreadin' around here. |
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Mike Schwartzman
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2011 3:15 pm
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David said:
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| If it's dead right now, but with no fireworks, I'd say you maybe got lucky. |
You probably did get lucky because the fuse hopefully did it's job by shutting the amp down before something more expensive got toasted.
On an older Twin Reverb or any amp (32 yrs. old definitely qualifies) the term "fully serviced" includes replacing certain components mentioned above that would make the amp "fully maintained" as well as serviced. That's my take on "fully serviced".
I'm looking at a few Fender amps right now a decade older than yours that will probably outlive me. Those old PTP Fenders are great. A little maintaince and they last decades plus.
_________________
Emmons Push Pull, BMI, Session 400, Home of the Slimcaster Tele. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2011 1:19 pm
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| Rectifier tube? I don't recall if the pilot light came on when I put a dead rectifier tube in my 62 Super. |
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Jim Kennedy
From:
Brentwood California, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2011 1:39 pm
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You need an experienced Fender Amp tech. Do a Google search. You should have no problem finding a reputable tech in your area. Go to his shop, look at his work, ask for references. A good tech will want to show off his work if it means more business. Ask your musician friends also. Word of mouth references are usually reliable. Ask your local music store, even if it's guitar center. They turned me on to great tech in my area. Don't worry, have a little patience. You will find the guy that can fix your amp.
_________________
ShoBud Pro 1, 75 Tele, 85 Yamaha SA 2000, Fender Cybertwin, |
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Rich Santucci
From:
Perkasie Pennsylvania USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2011 10:56 am
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To find out if it is a 130 Watt ultra linear amp, just look on the back panel near the speaker jacks. Does it say 130 watts or 100 watts. Your speaker impedence is 4 ohms and that is correct for the output transformer.
As far as being "dead", is the fuse blown?
I have to disagree with others as far as blackfacing is concerned. It can be a benefit to the amp. Especially in the area of the bias supply and the phase inverter. Taking all of that master volume push/pull crap helps open up the sound of the amp. Your milage may vary, but I've done this exact same thing to my own personal Twin Reverb and it sounds great!
Now if it is of the 130 Watt Ultra Linear design, well then, there is a lot more involved in doing a BF mod. But it can be done. |
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