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Topic: Why didn't it last? |
Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 10 Nov 2011 6:13 pm |
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Why did the rack and barrel die? It sure seems amazingly flexible, more so even than the Legend's quad raise, triple lower.
Note: I've never owned nor played one: I'm just admiring the simplexity of it.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 10 Nov 2011 6:25 pm
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The biggest complaints I have heard, and my biggest complaint was the noise. I think the two whole pullers with barrels were just as versatile with less noise. Both were wonderful systems in my opinion. Nothing gets me more excited that looking under the dress of an old Bud and seeing those under... carriages
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 10 Nov 2011 6:57 pm
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I'm looking at, on the suggestion of Michael Yahl, using the Sho-Bud rod and barrel in my MSA to get the third raise (the Bradshaw adapter doesn't look like an option because I have holes, not slots, in my endplate), and it just looks like genius.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Fred Glave
From:
McHenry, Illinois, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2011 8:38 pm
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Yes, I had a nice circa 1973 Professional that played pretty nice, but it was very noisy. At home I had to turn the amp up a little too loud to drown out that clanking rattle during practice. That sort of prohibits late night practicing.
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Zum Encore, Zum Stage One, Fender 2000, Harlan Bros., Multi-Kord, |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 11 Nov 2011 1:25 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| (the Bradshaw adapter doesn't look like an option because I have holes, not slots, in my endplate). |
That makes no difference. My 2 former classics also had holes in the endplate, that Tom's units worked just fine.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 11 Nov 2011 2:12 am
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Then how!??!?
Admittedly, I've only seen pictures of the part by itself, not mounted.
Do you put the rod in backwards and tune the 3rd change at the bellcrank under the guitar?
I don't THINK I'm a dumbass, but I am not understanding how that thing works.
My google-fu, usually strong, has failed to turn up any pictures of the adapter in action.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 11 Nov 2011 5:53 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
Then how!??!?
Admittedly, I've only seen pictures of the part by itself, not mounted.
Do you put the rod in backwards and tune the 3rd change at the bellcrank under the guitar?
I don't THINK I'm a dumbass, but I am not understanding how that thing works.
My google-fu, usually strong, has failed to turn up any pictures of the adapter in action. |
Lane, You have to temporarily remove the return spring on the string in question, and install the devise between the endplate and the changer finger. (Hint, run a piece of thread through the devise so you can lower it gently into place and hold it by the thread while you insert the rods. If you drop it, it's hard to retrieve.)
Installing the devises is somewhat difficult, but you only have to do it once per string. Once they're installed, you can forget about them. The only thing you have to do is remember which strings they are on when you tune your pedals.
My tuning has 2 triple raises and a triple lower. Tom's conversion devises worked perfectly in both directions, on both guitars, without needing any maintenance, from the day I installed them.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 11 Nov 2011 6:16 am
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So where does the rod go if there's no hole in the endplate? That's where I seem to suffer either imagination or visualization failure.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2011 6:39 am Re: Why didn't it last?
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| Why did the rack and barrel die? It sure seems amazingly flexible, |
Some pulls are too fast (short), and some too slow (long).... no flexibility there. |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 11 Nov 2011 8:07 am
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I play a R&B D-10 Shobud and what I notice is that the design, in order for it to be stable in tuning, has to have slop in it. It has to have a little gap (deadband) at the barrel to rack faying surfaces. So your pedals feel a bit more clanky because of this. This is the drawback to this simple and clever R&B system. Modern steels usually feel tighter in comparison don't you think?
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To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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Michael Yahl
From:
Troy, Texas!
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Posted 11 Nov 2011 8:17 am
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Thanks Mike! The nickle finally dropped. As soon as I read your post I flipped mine over and slipped the 'Gizmo' between the end plate and finger, Badda Bing Badda Boom, slicker than baby's runny nose!
I guess that due to the fact that the return springs obscure that space between the end plate and finger that it's not readily apparent to drop it in there.
Mike, do you suggest having a variety of different length spacers to adjust the timing point of when the step on the 'Gizmo' engages the finger? I currently package a 3/4" spacer to go behind the rear face to bring the total length to 1.750" which is the same as the stock spacer from nut to finger. Would a set of incremental spacers to go between the step and the finger be a good idea?
Lane, here is an old post that shows the 'Gizmo' and how it is installed on the rods.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=168641&highlight=
It's halfway down the page and posted by Bill Ford (Thanks Bill!)
I guess due to the following post by Darvin and Scott about forming the slots in the end plate, that just got stuck in my head.
_________________
"Don't fergit to kiss yer horse!"
'72 Sho-Bud Professional D10, (in pieces .....), '78 MSA Classic XL D10, '69 Emmons PP, Fender 2000
Peavey Session 500 BW, Crate Digital Modeling Amp
PSG PARTS
http://www.psgparts.com/ |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 11 Nov 2011 8:47 am
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Thanks for diggin' that post up, Michael! I don't know that changing the spacer would accomplish anything that turning the nut would, unless I again suffer imagination failure.
Yes, the modern guitars are tighter. I can't help but think that a Delrin washer where rack and barrel meet would silence the clank, although it might require a second hand under the guitar when tuning. As I've had pull-release and push-pull guitars, and my MSA has one ½ stop, reaching under a guitar as I tune is no big ting.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 11 Nov 2011 8:53 am
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| Michael Yahl wrote: |
Mike, do you suggest having a variety of different length spacers to adjust the timing point of when the step on the 'Gizmo' engages the finger? I currently package a 3/4" spacer to go behind the rear face to bring the total length to 1.750" which is the same as the stock spacer from nut to finger. Would a set of incremental spacers to go between the step and the finger be a good idea?
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That's not necessary. I don't know how long the original ones Tom sent me are, but they were all the same, and they all worked just fine.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2011 9:15 am
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I have had problems keeping the pulls in tune with R&B Buds as well... Seen others complain about that problem as well, but some folks have no tuning issues at all... bob
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2011 9:23 am
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Sometimes tuning one pull would accidentally detune another on the same rod. Also as Earnest said, there was no flexibility to time the pulls.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 11 Nov 2011 10:54 am
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Lane said:
| Quote: |
| I can't help but think that a Delrin washer where rack and barrel meet would silence the clank, although it might require a second hand under the guitar when tuning. |
On the Professional I had, that wasn't the objectionable noise for me. The racks themselves would rattle when activating a pedal. If you have only raises on a pedal, the lower rack also moves when you step on the pedal which causes the noise (actually so does the rack with the rods through them). But they are sweet guitars to play regardless. I've never had the chance to play a 2 hole puller/barrel 'Bud (that I was aware of).
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2011 11:00 pm
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To lesson the rattle on mine, I removed the lowering racks from any pedal that will almost always be used to raise. eg: Pedal A and B and C. F knee lever.
The reverse is true for positions that will always be used to lower.
The one exception was on knee levers that may be used differently now and then, like L/R and R/L. On those I just shot a little hot glue on the rack that I was not useing to keep it quieter, but allow someone else to change it in the future. Of course I'm talking E9. I also use little weak springs to pull everything into contact to avoid clanks. RP
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Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
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Allan Jirik
From:
Wichita Falls TX
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Posted 13 Nov 2011 8:40 pm Thanks
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| Thanks guys for discussing this subject. I have one of the adapters and will install it when I reassemble my guitar. Every tip helps!!! |
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