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Topic: Pot Frustrations (the pedal, not the plant) |
Christopher Wray
From:
California, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2011 9:09 am |
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Hello Gents,
I'm going through a volume pedal funk right now. My Hilton power supply crapped out on me so I need to order another one, and then last night at a session my goodrich L120 started scratching. I prefer the the L120 to the Hilton for PSG but am getting tired of pots going bad. How long are these things supposed to last? I bought this L120 4 months ago so it has the new Goodrich pot in it and it's already scratchy. Is that normal? I'm sure this has been covered so I apologize if this thread is redundant but I'd love to know what pots you guys are using with success.
Thanks,
Christopher |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 12 Oct 2011 9:39 am
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I believe Tom Bradshaw is still selling some good pots (the electrical kind, not the plant).
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Dale Hansen
From:
Hendersonville,Tennessee, (USA)
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Posted 12 Oct 2011 9:58 am
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I agree with Richard.
I bought a 'new' Goodrich L120 in 07'. It was scratchy from day one, fresh out of the box. I replaced that pot, and put two more pots in it, inside of a years time. After grousing about the fact that there seemed to be no good replacement pots, anywhere on the planet, somebody on the SGF turned me on to Tom Bradshaw's Dunlop pots. It turned out to be a great alternative to the long gone Bradleys. I've had it in my pedal since early 08', and it hasn't made the slightest pop, noise, or tone alteration. In fact, it is probably the purest, cleanest pot that I've ever had in any pedal.
*One good tip, though. Check out Greg Cutshaw's tute on installing the Dunlop pot. You'll find it on his website. It is meticulously illustrated, and explained, and it will surely spare you the agony of trying to understand, and work from Tom's diagram.
(..No offense Tom,...most of us just can't think like you.)
_________________
Bessdang Gizmos - "An Equal Opportunity Annoyer" |
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Bill Fisher
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2011 10:10 am
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Just buy a Telonics pedal. Problem solved.
Bill |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 12 Oct 2011 10:22 am
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Also, have you checked into getting your Hilton fixed? They are great pedals. Are you sure it is the pedal that died, or is it the power supply wal-wart? My wal-wart died on me a couple of months ago. Give Keith a holler.
I'm not sure a $500 Telonics pedal is the answer. Heck, buy another pot pedal to keep as a backup (of course, put one of Bradshaw's pots in it).
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 12 Oct 2011 11:17 am
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| Bill Fisher wrote: |
Just buy a Telonics pedal. Problem solved.
Bill |
What Bill said. The Telonics is expensive, but you get what you pay for. It really is outstanding.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 12 Oct 2011 12:02 pm
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FWIW, I drilled a tiny hole in the pot cover, #54 or around 1/32" or so. I used a drill press so as not to go deep and screw it up. Sprayed just a tiny bit of Caig DeOxit in the hole, worked it back and forth then tipped it toward the hole to let the excess and any fine chips out. Stuck a piece of blue painter's tape over the hole. I did this 2 days ago on an AB that was scratchy and now it's working fine. I like the old AB pots and try to save and revive them 'til the end of their useful life.
If your pot is only 4 months old, this should clean up the scratch and give it extra life. Old pots with worn out wipers and carbon cannot be helped much. |
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2011 4:47 pm
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As I have said before. I like the Canadian pots better, I think they were PEC, but I got tired of changing them out so often and went with the longer lasting Dunlop pot. RP
_________________
Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
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Cliff Kane
From:
the late great golden state
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Posted 12 Oct 2011 4:53 pm
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| The Dunlop pot that Tom Brandshaw sells is outstanding. I am using the same pot for going on about three years, and it still sounds great. The tone of the pot is very good, too. Even if you are using an electronic pedal, a pot pedal is a good thing to have as a backup. You might try cycling the pot that is in your pedal. Sometimes they will sound scratchy if they've been sitting for a while, and cycling cleans it up, but I have never had this happen with the Dunlop pot. |
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Justin Griffith
From:
Taylor, Texas, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2011 5:06 pm
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I cannot stress enough that the pot Mr. Bradshaw sells is the only one on the market today worth 10 cents.
I fooled around with several new old stock, ones supplied by Goodrich, stuff from Fry's, etc before I bought one of Tom's. I sure am glad Mr Bradshaw ended our frustrations.
Mine is going on three years.
On a side note, the Telonics pedals are among the finest ever built. Some folks just prefer a "pot" pedal.
Good luck in whatever you decide.
_________________
Emmons/Sho~Bud/Blanton, Fender/Peavey.
Telonics pedal |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 12 Oct 2011 5:31 pm
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Sorry.  I have access to a Telonics pedal and I am comparing it to my Hilton. I can't tell any difference whatsoever. So, tell me why it is worth almost twice as much as a Hilton (which is already outrageous in price). Don't give me the crap about multiple selectable tapers. I'll bet everyone that owns one has settled on their favorite taper and never changes it. Now the little blue light on the side (I was told it was to light up your pedals) is cute, but I don't need my pedals lit up. I never have to look at them. And that little light isn't worth an extra $200.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 12 Oct 2011 10:11 pm
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| Drilling and cleaning will work fine. Tom Bradshaw's Dunlop pot is the best. I'll take a pot pedal over a powered pedal anytime. |
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Ned McIntosh
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 12 Oct 2011 10:51 pm
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Tom Bradshaw's Dunlop "Hot-Potz" get my vote too. I have three spares and two Goodrich L120s fitted with them. (If you buy the pedal from Tom he'll put the Dunlop pot in it for you. How good is that?  )
_________________
The steel guitar is a hard mistress. She will obsess you, bemuse and bewitch you. She will dash your hopes on what seems to be whim, only to tease you into renewing the relationship once more so she can do it to you all over again...and yet, if you somehow manage to touch her in that certain magic way, she will yield up a sound which has so much soul, raw emotion and heartfelt depth to it that she will pierce you to the very core of your being. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 13 Oct 2011 6:38 am
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I can just guess on that some of you who experience frequent failing of VP pots may have something in the sound-chain that accelerate aging of pots, so I will mention some "aging factors".
If active units - effect-boxes etc - before or after the VP, charge even the tiniest amount of DC onto the VP for the pot to discharge, the pot, any pot, will tend to go bad in no time.
Some of the effect units and amps I have checked have miniature electrolytic capacitors in the in/out signal lines - these cheap components work fine all by themselves in unbalanced mainly battery powered circuits. Miniature electrolytic capacitors of less than top quality tend to charge up and cause stress on discharge components though, and common pots regardless of quality are not good "DC dischargers" and get tiny "burn-spots" when operated with AC (sound) overlaying DC. Just plugging in/out and/or turning on/off an active unit so that it discharges some of its built-up charge over the VP pot, is often enough to produce "burn-spots" on the pot's resistance-surface where the slider happens to be.
Once these "burns-spots" are on a pot's resistance-surface they won't go away, and will only get worse next time a discharge takes place on the same spot. Turning the pot vigorously will to a certain degree "polish out" "burn-spots", but sooner or later there will be a permanent audible "burn-spot" that can't be remedied.
Air-pollution on the pot's resistance-surface will of course make the tendency to burn permanents spots on it a lot worse, and perfectly sealed pots are "rare animals" - some are just better than others in this respect.
How pots are stored before and after they are mounted in the VP, will affect how they take up air-pollution.
As an example from my personal experience: down here in Florida where I am now, pots and connections tend to go bad quite a bit quicker - whether used or just stored - than they do back in Norway, mainly because of the higher humidity in Florida. Storing electronic equipment in a place/room with dehumidifier is always a good idea, and it is especially good for keeping VP pots last longer.
A well-balanced pair of LDRs (or similar non-mechanical variable resistors) as found in some "light VPs", can mimic the action of the best pot and won't be worn out. Power is needed for their control-circuits though - no problem IMO.
Addendum: I personally prefer pot or LDR VPs without built-in pre-amp circuits, as these let me control more than just volume with my right foot.
Active VPs, like the Telonics, are no good for me, as they only control volume and "fix" all other parameters to a "setting".
My Morley LDR VP has't created problems over the around 20 years since I bought - and modified - it, it "just works". Can't say much about my pot VPs life-length, as the ones I use are less than 2 years old. |
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Billy Knowles
From:
Kenansville, N. C. 28349 usa
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Posted 14 Oct 2011 6:00 pm Pot
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| I like Tom Bradshaw's, they are really good |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 14 Oct 2011 11:35 pm
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
| . So, tell me why it is worth almost twice as much as a Hilton (which is already outrageous in price). |
If it makes you feel any better, I'm sure neither manufacturer is making much money. Probably because these are small US companies. You are probably playing an instrument worth $2-3k why start complaining about prices now?
_________________
Milkmansound.com |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 15 Oct 2011 10:59 am
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Paying twice as much for any product that doesn't perform any better than the lower priced item is crazy to me. I also think SOME of the items specifically made for the steel guitar (not the guitars themselves) are maybe a little higher priced because the manufacturer knows there are many of us who will not question the price and just buy the item. I just find it hard to pay $500 for a freakin' volume pedal. Heck my NV400 didn't even cost that much when I bought it new in'84. I wonder what it would cost new if it was still in production.
I am going to use my friend's Telonics pedal tonight at a gig. I will alternate sets between my Hilton and the Telonics. I will report back if I notice any difference. The Telonics is set to a Hilton Taper. It has a little too much sound bleed thru in the "off" position for me, but I don't want to mess with his adjustments, even though he said I could.
Now I do notice a difference in feel between a pot pedal and an electric type pedal, but only in feel and not sound. I could be happy with a good pot pedal with a good pot. Of course, if you smoked a lot of good pot, none of this would matter. 
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 15 Oct 2011 11:48 am
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something else to consider that keeps the prices high: specialized products for steel only appeal to a very small market. Its not that manufacturers are jacking up prices - its that there are only a few people on earth that will buy the products, so they are made in smaller quantities.
we should be grateful that there are products for the steel guitar at all - if it were up to the large music equipment manufacturers, we would be shoe-horning everything into guitar amps through guitar pedals, because they can make 10,000 in China and sell them for $89. I personally do not mind paying a little extra to keep the small guys around, and to support their products because they are specialized products.
_________________
Milkmansound.com |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 15 Oct 2011 9:58 pm
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I haven't tried one of the Dunlop pots so I don't know about them. I have been using the new PEC pots that Goodrich recently made standard and I am very happy with them so far. The new "million cycle" standard PEC pots have the same feel and sound as my NOS Allen Bradley pot as far as I can tell. They are available from any Goodrich dealer.
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Bob |
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Jim Cooley
From:
The 'Ville, Texas, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2011 5:13 am
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| This thread addresses something that I have been wondering about for a while. I have a Goodrich 120 and a Hilton. There is a drastic difference in tone. The Hilton also feels much smoother than the Goodrich. I have heard many players who sound great using Goodrich pedals. However, mine sounds "dark" and muddy in comparison. Could the pot in my Goodrich be affecting the tone that much?[/list] |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 16 Oct 2011 6:03 am
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| Jim Cooley wrote: |
| Could the pot in my Goodrich be affecting the tone that much? |
What's the load (impedance) following the VP?
A VP pot of around 500Kohm will load the PU with approx 500Kohm when VP is "off". If the load (from amp or whatever) following the VP is around 200Kohm, the load on the PU will vary from 500Kohm to around 200Kohm as the VP is pushed to fully "on", getting most of the drop close to fully on. This load-variation will of course affect tone, and it depends on the PU's characteristics and the nature(*) of the load after the VP how tone is affected.
(*) amps and other units rarely ever exhibit a perfectly linear and purely resistive, load. Passive or active low-pass and/or high-pass filters are found on the input on many amps/units, and when the varying serial resistance in a VP pot is put before them the filter-characteristics gets altered with varying VP activation.
Add to this the quality/characteristics of the signal-cable(s) - which vary greatly with type and length, and all pot/resistive VPs will become "volume and tone control" pedals regardless of which around 500Kohm pot/resistive element(s) type we put in them. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 16 Oct 2011 7:34 am
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Jim,
The difference could be the pot or how you have your Hilton set. There is a thing that acts like a tone control you turn with a little screw driver on the Hilton.
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Bob |
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Jim Cooley
From:
The 'Ville, Texas, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2011 8:33 am
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| Bob- The Hilton sounds better than the Goodrich regardless of its tone adjustment. Thanks. |
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