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Topic: The pretense of spontaneity is misleading the Newbie |
Bo Legg
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Posted 4 Sep 2011 1:32 pm |
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I think one of the difficulties for a Newbie here on the Steel Guitar Forum is that he doesn't realize that a lot of Steel players don’t let anyone know they studied music and applied that knowledge with hour upon hour of practice to what they borrowed from others.
I don’t know if the pretense of spontaneity is deliberate or the players simply forgot how they got to where they are on the Steel Guitar.
So the Newbie gets the idea from this constant rhetoric that if you’re not born a natural musical genius you have little chance of becoming a good Steel player. |
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Archie Nicol R.I.P.
From:
Ayrshire, Scotland
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Posted 4 Sep 2011 2:11 pm
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'hanks for that, Bo.
Arch. |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 4 Sep 2011 2:53 pm
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I know a lot of people can get downright insulted by this "Oh! What a gift you have!" kind of nonsense (myself for one). It supposedly takes 10,000 hours of focused practice to get really good at anything. I suspect that number is variable, and it makes a better truism than fact - but, I used to write a column for a local newspaper, and every once in a while I'd get the fever and bang out a killer.
Insert tittering old lady -> "Oh my! What a gift that is! I could never do that... how long does one of those take you?"
"Eight hours...."
Insert -> dead silence.
It's an easy out for lazy people, you either have "the gift" - or you needn't bother trying. There are any number of great musicians, writers & artists who insest that they weren't a natural, and they had to work incredibly hard to get what they have. I suspect "the gift" is more obsessive/compulsive disorder than anything else, and nowadays it's common to medicate that and "perfectionism" right out of people to make them "happy." whee.... |
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Joseph Barcus
From:
Volga West Virginia
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Posted 4 Sep 2011 4:33 pm
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and even for some like me it takes double time to learn anything, someone once said to me wont be long you will be as good as so & so. I replied back and said I hope not because I want to play like me
_________________
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvuH7H8BajODaL_wy3_HSJQ |
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Richard Damron
From:
Gallatin, Tennessee, USA (deceased)
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Posted 4 Sep 2011 8:10 pm
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I'm reminded of a reported incident involving a famous concert violinist. (Name forgotten)
Seems that he was approached by a stranger and asked how one gets to Carnegie Hall.
His reply: "Practice".
The Newbie should "steal" everything from everyone. There are lessons to be learned in so doing. It's only when one's musical library is full to overflowing can the effort be made to create a personal and unique musical voice.
A Newbie who fails to appreciate the necessity of paying one's dues is relegated to the playing of tired old licks ad infinitum.
It makes for terribly boring music.
I hate being bored. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 4 Sep 2011 9:28 pm
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IMHO, there isn't really a "pretense" of spontaneity in playing any more than there is one in speaking. We have all learned a certain amount of vocabulary and grammar during our lifetimes, which differs among individuals. Any individual can then talk about anything they like, within the confines of their vocabulary and grammar, together with their knowledge (whether studied formally or informally) of various subjects to talk about. Is what they have to say not 'spontaneous' because they have studied about a certain subject to become knowledgeable about it, and have the vocabulary and grammar to discuss it coherently? I think it's very analogous to improvisational music: you have spontaneity within certain ground-rules and based on your overall understanding of the subject matter and your mastery of the tools of expression. Just MHO.
p.s. On the other hand, if Bo is referring to players who have learned someone else's spontaneous solo note-for-note and gotten it up to speed and can recite it fluently and make the uninitiated believe that they came up with it themselves... well, that's a different matter, of course. Kind of like fluently reciting the Gettysburg Address: you might give a brilliant rendition of it but it would indeed be a pretense to let (unaware and uninformed) people believe that you came up with that little speech all by yourself.
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Scott Henderson
From:
Camdenton, Missouri, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2011 5:13 am
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Jim nailed it on the head with a big hammer...your style comes from eons of practice to develope your bag of tricks that's all. "A gift" is only as good as how much you develope it...
_________________
D-10 JCH Dekley U-12 D-8 Magnatone Mullen RP Evans RE 200 profex 2 BJS bars
Dentyne gum (peppermint) |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 5 Sep 2011 9:00 am
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Quote "there isn't really a "pretense" of spontaneity in playing any more than there is one in speaking"
If then everything is spontaneous then it is a given and we have no need for the word and of course it follows that we couldn't pretend to be something that we already are.
However I think the phrase properly used within "Let me big hammer Bo and his topic anyway I can with the pretense of spontaneity"  |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2011 9:55 am
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There's also the issue of learning the vocabulary, and achieving a fluency with patterns so as to deliver hundreds of "new" licks - but then having nothing to say! Steel guitar's too hard to play to support more than a handful of "geniuses" each generation, and I tend to listen mostly to the outliers anyways. But I do know that the electric blues/rock guitar field is excruciatingly over-saturated with demi-gods these days. Overall there's got to be several thousand of these guys who all had the exact same low-down feelin' that's expressed in exactly the same way. I mean, these guys are all really, really good - drop-ship a few back to 1965 and they'd be the butternuts - but god-damn it's tiring. Dee-dee-dee-de-weewee.... make constipation faces, wear a blues hat and a trucker wallet, yes Hambone, WE GET IT ALREADY. How can we miss you when you never, ever go away....  |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 5 Sep 2011 1:12 pm
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Man, All those dudes woodshedin’ them airchecks and sides are nothing but noodlin’ crumbs not jamin in the mix.  |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 5 Sep 2011 1:22 pm
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Stuart, if Bo thinks I was attempting to big hammer his thread, he can say so himself. However I think mine was a very respectful contribution to the conversation. Yours, on the other hand, not so much...
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 5 Sep 2011 2:30 pm
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Sorry Jim I was mistaken about the big hammer, maybe it was just a small wimpy hammer.
I do apologize to the newbies here and I will try to make it up by posting only useful information in the future.
But let me first point out that You have to think before you write so what you write is a premeditated response and I give folks credit for giving what they write a lot of good thought and a denial of that fact is a pretense of spontaneity.
Bo could care less. He is used to being hammered off track by the Punctuation and Diffinician Police. |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 5 Sep 2011 2:44 pm
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| Say good night Stuart! |
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Geoff Cline
From:
Southwest France
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Posted 5 Sep 2011 3:23 pm
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Bill Moran
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2011 4:35 pm
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I know a 6 string guitar player that has won award after award with his perfect bluegrass style of playing. He does it all from memory ! Put him in a live situation on a song he has not practiced and he sounds like a beginner.
I'm not very good at it but a musician that has command of his instrument, stolen licks or made up on his own, has my respect. But you know, memory is not bad until someone decides to "try this one boys" !
_________________
Bill |
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Larry Freeman
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2011 4:04 am
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| I'm trying to learn to play as fast as Doug Jernnigan so I bought all his teaching videos and put them on fast forward.....still don't have it yet! |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Larry Freeman
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 8 Sep 2011 4:08 am
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Jim, I already play half..OH, I'm sorry, you said half-FAST!  |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 13 Sep 2011 11:41 pm
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| OK now Jim you can exit stage left, don't even think about a curtain call. |
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Robert Harper
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2011 12:45 am
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| Joseph Barcus wrote: |
| and even for some like me it takes double time to learn anything, someone once said to me wont be long you will be as good as so & so. I replied back and said I hope not because I want to play like me |
Thats great That is what I sometimes wonder about all this copying licks trying to sound like Buddy, Chalker or whatever flavor. Thre was only one Elvis, Haggard, Cash, Nelson. Point is develop your on abilities and style. At a recent steel guitar show I saw a professional switch between both necks on the same song. Maybe a lot of Steel Players do that. I just havent seen this and thought there is someone doing it his way
_________________
"Oh what a tangled web we weave when we first begin to deceive" Someone Famous |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 14 Sep 2011 5:49 am
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| There's no denying, the pedal steel is a difficult instrument to learn and to a "newbe' it can daunting. But, I feel, that, the only way a newbe can learn is emulate anothers work. Isn't that, the way most anything is learned? Someone must teach the student a tried and true way to start any endeavor. And, musically speaking, copying licks, phrases or techniques is a way to learn. After having said that, there are some people, who, just can't get it. Their dexterity or mindset might not be suited for the pedal steel. And, I can certainly understand that. Their field of prowess might be something completely different than, the average or advanced steel players. However, I think that, too much emphasis has been put upon being the greatest, the hottest, the enviable. We all can't be a Buddy or Curly or a Doug. They are themselves and we are ourselves. As to not saying how long it took to learn the instrument... I don't think that matters. Anybody, who, is proficient at anything has had to "pay their dues" woodshedding whatever they do and I think, that should be immediately understood, without saying.I've seen a few fledgeling steelers give up and sell their stuff because they can't get it. And, that's OK. They just didn't have the feel for it or the time to practise their craft. But, I've also heard those, who, could only play "Mary had a little Lamb" and be quite happy with themselves |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 14 Sep 2011 6:57 am
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... and then there are some who have great chops and absolutely master an arrangement by Buddy Emmons or another leading steeler and can replicate it note for note with great success. I'm always impressed with their technical prowess but am also always left wondering why, with all that great technical ability, they don't apply it to something original, or at least an original arrangement of a different tune. For example, I've heard many steelers play E's version of Danny Boy, note-for-note. It's beautiful for sure, but I want to know who they are, and what they have to say musically that hasn't already been said before by someone else. End of rant.
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 14 Sep 2011 10:35 am
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| Yeah! There are three different ways to do a song, (1) play it like Buddy and be called a copycat,(2) Do it your own way and be accused of not being good enough to play it like Buddy or (3) play it like I do to where no one will recognize it. I think the (3) option is the best. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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