Return to non pedal

Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

I'm wondering why people like Bobby Black, Tom Morrell and Maurice Anderson made such significant moves back to non pedal guitars after playing pedal for so long. Anybody have any clues?
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Chris Tweed · From: Cardiff, Wales, UK

I can think of a few reasons for moving to non-pedal:

1. Lighter to carry around—less risk of a hernia—and generally more portable.

2. They're (arguably) more fun to play—I play both but there is something liberating about playing non-pedal after a long stint on PSG.

3. Less physically demanding to play and requires no ankle, leg or knee movements, which can be harder to achieve with worn joints.

4. Non-pedal is often (wrongly) thought to be more suited to playing swing and jazz, which may people seem drawn to as they get older.

There are probably other reasons but that's a big enough hornet' nest to poke for now.

Chris

Rich Gardner · From: Columbus, Ohio, USA

I believe the late great Don Helms went back to non pedal.

Reece Anderson · From: Keller Texas USA, R.I.P.

My return to non pedal was brought about by a car accident in which I was hit from behind while stopped, and it numbed my feet. (I fully recovered after about 6 months)

A friend named Jim Boen heard about my accident, called me and said he would like to build me a non pedal guitar to play while my pedal pushing days were somewhat restricted. He said, if you will design it, I'll build it for you! I agreed, and about a month later he arrived at my home with a single neck 12 string shaped much like the SuperSlide of today.

After I started playing it, my enthusiasm for the non pedal once again emerged. I enjoyed the challenge of bar slants and string groupings, and soon came to realize the tremendous benefit of playing non pedal while "thinking" pedals.

Doing this made me realize (that for me) playing non pedal steel forced me to visualize chordal and single string schematics in greater depth. Imagining the strings and pull distances when using pedals and knee levers when applied to non pedal, is both intriguing and very challenging.

To achieve that which I play on a pedal guitar on the non pedal, I have to continually concentrate while only "thinking " of pedal and knee levers and the distances they move, then apply that on the fretboard. In addition, because of the missing pedals and levers my technique AND mind set, must achieve a higher level of awareness, which I'm convinced greatly improves technique.

I have found that practicing on both pedal and non pedal is a great advantage for me, because each sharpens my skills for playing the other.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

I spent a couple years playing mostly non pedal and besides some of the other things mentioned I was motivated by:

1. The sound. Nothing gets the sound of old Fender and Richenbacher steels. And once I played one of Todd Clinesmith's console steels I was hooked.

2. Gigs. Most of my money was coming from non pedal gigs for a while.

I'm back to playing mostly pedalsteel these days because of work and also my own music is more suited to pedalsteel.
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Billy Tonnesen · From: R.I.P., Buena Park, California

When playing non-pedal Steel IMHO, you have to really rely on phrasing the full chords available to fit in the right spots and turn heads when it happens. Take for instance, Noel Boggs ! He had a cetain amount of block chords he used in his playing, but it was about where he used them and how he phrased without overdoing it. Also, I think when useing your hands and upper body, you really get into the Swing of what your playing as you move up and down the fretboard. You need to play with a lot of feeling when playing non-pedal.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Well, there you go with the real story from Reece. His logic makes sense to me, as usual.

Although I mainly consider myself a pedal steel player, I have been logging some time on nonpedal (50s Fenders and a '38 Rickenbacher Bakelite B6) to focus on 'top of the guitar' technique, and of course for the tone and vibe - they really do sound different. I am sometimes amazed by the preoccupation pedal steel players sometimes have to change around their whole pedal/lever setup to get one simple little change that could be gotten by a simple bar move or slant. A big part of the beauty of steel guitar is bar movement, it's not something to be avoided, and this is, at one level, a discipline thing for me.

In addition, some people I'm working with really want some old-school nonpedal. It's also nice to be able to stand up with those old Fenders - I almost always double on guitar and generally sing some - I find it quite a bit easier to do those and lead a band while standing up.

Jerome Hawkes · From: Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA

+1 on everything chris said:

i've often wondered if you reach a point musically where you realize you dont really need all those pedals & knees, a D-8 will give you a lot of music.

i also think it depends on the style you play - if you play jazz/swing based music as opposed to country/folk style - you can swing a lot harder on non-pedal - of course players use to play pedals without the gliss and fluff but thats not the norm these days - early on they used the pedals more to change the tunings while still playing on top of the neck. - this is a good exercise to try - lower the E 's and play completely in Bb6 or the AB pedals playing completely in A6 - fun stuff.
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Mike Neer · From: NJ

I would think it would be refreshing for a pedal player to play non-pedal, if only just to get out of the usual ruts and just play the guitar without worrying about the feet and knees, but there are a lot of players who have no desire to do this, as was proven to me in a recent thread I started which asked the question, "How many of you pedal steel players enjoy playing non-pedal?" http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=205446

There are many non-pedal players who have no desire to ever play pedals, too. I'm not one of them, but I have reached the conclusion that I personally cannot play pedal steel. That hasn't stopped me from wanting to steal the licks and enjoying the playing, however.

I do think there are different levels of musical curiosity and some folks are very content doing what they do, which is just fine. I prefer challenges and re-invention every now and then.
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Franklin · Posted 25 Jul 2011 6:19 am

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I agree with Paul. My earlier post should not be inferred to imply a recommendation to 'return' or 'move' from pedal to nonpedal. I don't agree with the general proposition that a nonpedal steel is 'equivalent' to a pedal steel, and there are many things for which I 'need' pedals and levers to get what I want, and I doubt that will change by working more on nonpedal. I also think they're both cool in their own ways, but one can play a pedal steel without using the pedals - it is a steel guitar.

I'll also say that I occasionally get the vibe from some (obviously not all) nonpedal steel players that, somehow, having pedals and levers is, in essence, a form of 'cheating' and a 'lesser' skill than mastering nonpedal. Of course, I don't agree with any type of rank-ordering on this kind of thing.

Jerome Hawkes · From: Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA

i played mandolin for many years and got spoiled by just picking up the case and heading out the door - when i started doing some gigs on psg, oh, what a pain it seemed - pack-a-seat, vp, effects pedals, chords, 65lb amp, breaking down the steel, etc - then the repeat x2 at the gigs, plus once you get there, you have forgot something like your ac adapter. i would get asked to do some open mic jams and just not go due to the hassle (and volume level) - so for me, playing non-pedal was a breath of fresh air. i even take it on vacation and play on the deck with a pocket pod.

i've also noticed that the volume levels for psg gigs are just off the charts for the size clubs you play . non-pedal gigs usually have acoustic bass, archtop or acoustic gtrs and either no drums or a basic kit and play the SAME venue at 1/4 the volume.

now - i TRY to think non-pedal along the lines of a trumpet player -i refer to it as "forced selectivity". if you listen to a lot of trumpet players, due to the nature of the instrument, they are very selective about phrasing because they cant run notes like, say a sax - listen to chet baker, miles, and louis how they phrase a line compared to the post-50's sax players - to me, its more "organic".
I've always thought that i tended to play too much on the psg vs being very carefully selective on the non-pedal about which notes and intervals are the best choice - some of it certainly due to the limitations of the N-P voicings.

speaking of selectivity - and off topic - George Van Eps wrote a massive 3 volume method dealing with just the moving lines of 3 note triads which i tried to get thru on gtr many years ago - but i found this audio interview he did in 1980 and its a wonderful look inside his thinking - great for both pedal & non-pedal as he was often concerned with moving 3 note lines, and since most of us use 3 picks....well you get the point
http://www.tedgreene.com/audio/TedGreene_GeorgeVanEps.asp
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Mike Neer · From: NJ

Jerome, I studied those Van Eps books for guitar. I didn't complete all of them, but I did the Van Eps Guitar Method, which was the original condensed book. The thing I know from that is that it doesn't necessarily apply to steel (although it could, albeit in a very limited way) because it is about training your left hand fingers to have the independence to play single note lines and chords simultaneously the way George did. George stated in the introduction to the book that it was to "gain digital independence." His style was derived from years of tenor banjo playing (his father was also one of the greatest tenor banjo players in history, Fred Van Eps).
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Jerome Hawkes · From: Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA

right mike - i didnt mean to refer the book to steel players (cause i curiously tried it..) but check out the link - i think you especially would appreciate the topics covered regarding harmony and voice movement within triads, his experiments with adding strings to the gtr, etc - just a cool interview - from a master of the topic.
it just popped up in my head regarding "forced selectivity" dealing with non-pedal tunings, since selectivity (opening/closing the intervals of a triad) as Eps called it was one of the main points of the method...least thats what i got from it.
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Joe Miraglia · From: Jamestown N.Y.

I would go with a non pedal D8 or D10 tuning one neck tuned to the E-Harp Alkrie tuning.The other E6th. and once again start using 3 finger picks Smile

Joe

Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

I appreciate all of y'all's replies. Special thanks to Reece and Paul. I have been experimenting with C6 pedal steel for a couple of years now after playing at non pedal for many years and actually practicing seriously for 4 or 5 years. I have found there are some songs that the pedals enhance a great deal. But most of the time, I seem to be just as well off without them. Perhaps like Mike Neer, I'm just better suited constitutionally to play non pedal. And since I get few enough gigs to be embarrassed to even call myself a semi pro, I don't have an economic incentive one way or the other. Thanks again for ALL of your replies.
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Twayn Williams · From: Portland, OR

I mainly play acoustic instruments these days, so I need to do what I need to do on a 6-string dobro Smile

PSG and console/lap/dobro/etc are more like kissing cousins. They've very similar but not exactly the same. And while you might very well be able to play a PSG just like a console steel, it won't sound the same (different construction, pickups and the lack of volume/tone knobs). I can almost never stand to hear western swing played on a PSG. Tends to set my teeth on edge Mr. Green

YMMV.
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Mike Neer · From: NJ

Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

I had the same experience at the Strawberry Music Festival, Mike.
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Elton Smith · From: Texas, USA

I have moved to a lighter bar.I was reffered to a heavey bar to start with.I thought all the sounds I needed were done by the guitar.I think some players have a pedal or lever for every sound they make.I have a 3+4 set up on 9th that does very well.But I am also learning that I can use the bar to make a lot of changes.That opened up a lot of options for me.I started out with a dobro,and the two are starting to come togather.Do you think the pedal steel can get to complexed?
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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I never look at it as a "return to nonpedal". Both are steel guitars. Different steel guitars have different features. I just play the steel guitar that is in front of me at the moment.

If you have more than one steel guitar, selecting the correct one for the style of music is important. I wouldn't want to have to play a Rickenbacker frypan with a honky tonk band, or a Sho-Bud LDG at a luau. I could do it, but it would be harder than playing the "right" instrument for the job.
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Franklin · Posted 26 Jul 2011 5:05 pm

Whose to say what's the right axe for any gig.....Jerry Byrd played his Sho-bud at Luau's for many years.....Scotty inherited that guitar.

Paul

Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

And I love Jerry's go to line for whateverpiece of equipment was being discussed, "If you knopw how to play, it doesn't matter what kind of ___you have. And if you don't know how to play, it doesn't matter what kind of ___ you have.". Classic! Laughing

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Twayn Williams · From: Portland, OR

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

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