| Author |
Topic: Best Tone Pots for Boo-Wha |
Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 13 Nov 2012 5:49 am |
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| Hi, I like old western swing and I want to have this deep Boo-Wha Speedy West and Joaquin Murphey had with my Fender Stringmaster T8, any suggestion for a tone pot? Thanks! |
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Billy Tonnesen
From:
R.I.P., Buena Park, California
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Posted 13 Nov 2012 3:33 pm
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whatever make of "Pot" you get, it needs to be a fast "Tapir" ie; Bass to Treble. Years ago most used a sealed "Allen Bradley. Talk to your Electronics store !
_________________
Sacramento Western Swing Society Hall of Fame, 1992 |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 13 Nov 2012 4:46 pm
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Well,,,,, what is the value of you Fender tone pot? On my old Gibson D-7, the value is 250K. A previous owner added a Boo Wah lever, see pic, and it uses a 1meg pot. Works great. So it would seem that you have to up the value of the pot. A 1meg pot needs only be turned up one quarter of the way to go from full bass to full treble, as compared to the stock 250k pot.
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Benjamin Kelley
From:
Iowa, USA
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Posted 13 Nov 2012 5:59 pm
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I have to agree with the use of a 1 meg pot. That is what I have in my stringmaster and it Boo-Wahs quite nicely. I believe I used a linear taper pot.
Cheers,
Benjamin
_________________
If I die trying I will steel the world one honky tonk at a time. |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 13 Nov 2012 10:13 pm
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+1 on the 1Meg.
I used a 1Meg with a long-bat knob on my old Duo-Sonic II... you could wah each note. The 1meg gives the quick response so you don't really even care about the taper... only about the first quarter of the pot's throw is used, the rest of the throw makes no difference. I'd go for 1M linear, IIRC...
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Nate Hofer
From:
Overland Park, Kansas
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Posted 14 Nov 2012 5:34 am
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Be sure to search the archives for more answers on this topic. I know I've read and contributed to some in the last year or two years. Search for boo-wah pedal as well. Look for posts by Lee Jefferies. He drew a schematic that includes pot values and cap values for his boo-waa Bigsby pedal.
Also you might consider a boo-wah pedal instead of onboard boo-waa. Fender makes a repro volume/tone pedal that's a pretty good value for less than $100 on Amazon. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 14 Nov 2012 5:44 am
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The best boo-wah I've ever had is on my Custom T-8.
250kΩ tone pots with .05 μf caps.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Blake Hawkins
From:
Florida
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Posted 14 Nov 2012 6:24 am
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A note on the Fender Custom T-8. If it still has the original factory wiring, the volume pot needs to be wide open for the best boo-wah.
The placement of the volume control makes it difficult to use anyway. I control the volume with
the amp or a pedal. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2012 6:43 am
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According to this wiring diagram, the guitar uses a 250k tone pot. So 1meg should do the trick. The only problem with that pot is that it can be more difficult to set your tone, as the "throw" is so short. Full bass to full treble in 1/4 turn. You might try experimenting with some lesser values if you can find them,,, say 750k. 1meg works on my Teles, and works on my Grande Console. But on the Gibson, I have a switch that turns it off, so I can use the regular 250k tone pot.
http://steelguitar.com/manuals/FenderStringmaster.pdf |
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Nate Hofer
From:
Overland Park, Kansas
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Posted 14 Nov 2012 9:58 am
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| I think you also need a good amp that can deliver good lows and mids. |
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Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 14 Nov 2012 10:43 am
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Thanks a lot for all the reply, I think I will try a 1Meg pot.
Salomo, a pedal is a good idea but I already have a good Goodrich volume pedal and I dont want to over use the boo-wha.
Last edited by Jean-Sebastien Gauthier on 15 Nov 2012 6:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jim Bates
From:
Alvin, Texas, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2012 5:31 pm
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I agree with Mike because my Fender T-8 always had (and still does) great 'boo-wah'. Also, I never played with my volume control wide open, usually 1/2 to 3/4 and got great boo-wah. Never had any problems with using the tone control when I wanted to. Takes practice to get the hang of it.
The secret to mine was that I played through a 1954 Fender Twin (no reverb in it). You need to turn off the reverb to get 'that' sound.
Thanx,
Jim |
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Roger Shackelton
From:
MINNESOTA (deceased)
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Posted 14 Nov 2012 11:52 pm Doo-Wah Vs Boo-Wah?
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On A Non Pedal Steel Guitar I Believe The Sound A Person Gets By Using The Tone Control is "DOO WAH".
The "Boo Wah" Effect Is Obtained By Using The 8th Pedal, When Playing The C-6th Neck On A PSG. JMHO! 
ROGER |
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Nate Hofer
From:
Overland Park, Kansas
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Posted 15 Nov 2012 5:26 am
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| Boo-waaaaaaaaaaaah!!!! |
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Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 15 Nov 2012 6:10 am
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| Jim Bates wrote: |
The secret to mine was that I played through a 1954 Fender Twin (no reverb in it). You need to turn off the reverb to get 'that' sound.
Thanx,
Jim |
Yes I think its true, like Salomon said : you need a good amp that can deliver good lows and mids.
I use now a small tube amp (30 watt, class A push-pull) made their in Quebec City that don't have reverb. I realized that the steel sound a lot better (to me) without reverb. I put the Treble at 3, Bass and Mid at 7 and I have a very 40's sound. |
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 15 Nov 2012 7:59 am
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My 1951 Bronson has a 250kΩ tone pot and the boo wah is textbook -- but I agree that taper probably has a lot to do with it. For example, my Melbert steel has a 500kΩ tone pot but I can get a boo wah out of that one as well. It is definitely more subdued but can be used to effect. It must have the taper necessary for me to be able to occasionally use it in this manner.
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2012 1:56 pm
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Roger,
I agree with you. I always heard that pedal called the "Boo-Wah" pedal. |
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Jim Bates
From:
Alvin, Texas, USA
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Posted 15 Nov 2012 5:19 pm
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One of the groups I was playing steel with in the 50's (when Speedy West was on a lot of recordings)called what I was doing the "slap, bang wah-wah". I guess that is because I usually slapped down the bar before turing the tone pot to give the wah-wah. Even got to where I could almost stutter the bar as fast as Speedy. Oh well, whatever the effects are called today ....
We did it manually!
Thanx,
Jim |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 15 Nov 2012 11:46 pm
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My 1948 Gibson Century came with 500K reverse audio pots- which means that the tone control went from dark to bright way fast. While it is fairly easy to measure the total resistance of a pot it is a little trickier to determine the taper.
Most audio pots these days use a 10% taper which means that for 1M audio taper pot a setting of 5 will give you 10% of 1M which is 100K. (A setting of 5 on a linear pot would give you 500K.) So for a 10% reverse audio taper pot a setting of 5 would be 900k (practically full on.)
Most of the cheap Alpha et al 1M audio taper pots will use a 100k linear resistive path for settings 1-7.5 and a 900k linear resistive path for settings of 7.5-10 (see drawing below.) A true audio or logarithmic taper pot would be more expensive to make. While "A" indicates Audio and "B" indicates linear you will find "D" taper audio pots as well which as far as I know indicates a special taper. Fender uses some 20% audio pots in some of their amps typically to allow the volume control to get louder faster (which makes you think that the amp will be super loud when set to 10.)
While you can order some reverse audio taper pots the easiest way to see if that is what you want is to wire up a regular audio pot backwards so that 1 is full on and 10 is full off. If that works for you then you can try to track down (or create!) a reverse audio pot.
One way to create a reverse (or normal) audio pot is to add a tapering resistor to a linear pot. For the most authentic audio taper the tapering resistor should be 20% of the pot value so you would add a 200k tapering resistor to a 1M linear pot- between the wiper and the ground terminal for a normal audio taper, or the wiper and the hot (ungrounded) terminal for a reverse audio taper.
http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/potsecrets/potscret.htm
[/i][/b]
BTW R.G. Keen's GEOFEX site is chock full of articles about DIY musical instrument electronics. He has been designing FX pedals for Visual Sound since retiring as an Executive Project Manager for IBM a few years ago. His contribution to the whole do-it-yourself movement which started in the mid 90's modding and building FX pedals and guitar amps is second to none.
http://www.geofex.com/
Steve Ahola
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
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http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 16 Nov 2012 7:24 am
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| Steve Ahola wrote: |
My 1948 Gibson Century came with 500K reverse audio pots- which means that the tone control went from dark to bright way fast. While it is fairly easy to measure the total resistance of a pot it is a little trickier to determine the taper.
Most audio pots these days use a 10% taper which means that for 1M audio taper pot a setting of 5 will give you 10% of 1M which is 100K. (A setting of 5 on a linear pot would give you 500K.) So for a 10% reverse audio taper pot a setting of 5 would be 900k (practically full on.)
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In fact that what I have in my Stringmaster, I change the tone pot and installed it reverse by error! It make it very easier for wha effect, all the tone change in the first 10% of a turn. Maybe I just need more practice on it.
I also realized this morning that I have to put more high from the amp, I set the high level at 5 and the contrast of the wha is better and I ear more of the crash bar.
This effect is a science by itself! |
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Helmut Gragger
From:
Austria
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Posted 19 Nov 2012 5:28 am
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In my experience as technician, with a 250k resistance in series (pot fully open) the capacitor is effectively defeated. However, the law (taper) of a pot changes the way the treble-cutting action sets in.
Given a certain amount of rotation from full, any bigger sized pot will shift that action towards the end position, while most of its rotational angle nothing will happen. This will thus appear "faster". Log, linear or reverse log will all have a different "feel". Volume pedal modders know this.
Normally the goal is to easily dial in a satisfying tone, easy to reproduce and uncritical to set.
This may be in conflict with a "fast action" boo-wah control:
| John Billings wrote: |
| The only problem with that pot is that it can be more difficult to set your tone, as the "throw" is so short. |
Unfortunately some tone controls like on my Rick are veeerrry sensitive for that sweet spot tone setting. I have made a few boo-wahs just to find that tone was way off afterwards.
What we want is a tone pot that sets the basic tone and leave that alone plus a second control for boo-wahing.
Maybe someone invents something. Go ahead!
-helmut
_________________
feel at home at: http://me.aquataur.guru |
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Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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Posted 19 Nov 2012 6:36 am
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| Helmut Gragger wrote: |
... What we want is a tone pot that sets the basic tone and leave that alone plus a second control for boo-wahing.
Maybe someone invents something. Go ahead!
-helmut |
A separate dedicated "fast action" boo-wah control should not be too hard to implement. Maybe its as simple as something like a "no load pot" like Fender currently uses in some of their models. In the wide open position it is effectively out of the circuit so that would let you set the treble knob in your sweet spot and do any boo-wah from the third knob. Once done, just roll the boo-wha back to wide open and all is as it was.
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 19 Nov 2012 10:57 am
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| Helmut Gragger wrote: |
Unfortunately some tone controls like on my Rick are veeerrry sensitive for that sweet spot tone setting. I have made a few boo-wahs just to find that tone was way off afterwards. |
Yeah, my Ric B6 is the same way. I just realized this quite glaringly last night at rehearsal. I just had my amp modded and the OD channel has some sweet harmonic overtones that really sing when the tone knob on my B6 is set "just so"... but it's super finnicky.
Tom's idea sounds neat but I would have one concern... the best boo-wha to my ears would extend well past my sweet spot in order to get the most dramatic effect.
I think his idea is cool though. A separate dedicated boo wah knob could be made more ergonomic and cleverly placed (compared to the other knobs) -- so as to allow you to really have that quick clean control.
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 19 Nov 2012 11:10 am
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"What we want is a tone pot that sets the basic tone and leave that alone plus a second control for boo-wahing. "
That's exactly the way my old Gibson is set up. In the pic in my earlier post, you can see the lever that controls the 1 meg pot. On the central control panel is a switch, which switches between the two tone pots. Set the normal pot for your regular tone, and flip the switch to Boo Wah. |
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Helmut Gragger
From:
Austria
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Posted 19 Nov 2012 11:56 am
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| John Billings wrote: |
| On the central control panel is a switch, which switches between the two tone pots. |
By the looks somebody installed this on your guitar. To an extent, a guitar is just an instrument for expressing one´s feelings by te most original meaning, but not everybody will be ready to drill holes into their guitars for installing additional stuff...
Nevertheless, I have an idea for a non-obtrusive method, I will come back to this later. But Jack I agree, the effect to be pronounced may require to go beyond the sweet spot.
-helmut
_________________
feel at home at: http://me.aquataur.guru |
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