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Topic: changing strings for 1st time...time to clean? Suggestions? |
Benjamin Jayne
From:
Orange County California, USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2011 9:45 am |
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I'm preparing to change the strings on my Lamar S-10 (Lacquer) for the first time, and I know I've read on the forum that this is a great time to clean and re-lube your instrument. Since this is my first time, I am a little gun-shy about whippin' out the cleaning products or disassembling pieces of the guitar without some advice from those with more experience. Here's some key areas I think need a little TLC:
dust and slight 'grime' at the edges of the key head (below the strings)
dirty rollers and the area under the rollers
dust around the pickup
dust (and is that pet hair!?) in the changer
finger prints and smudges on the legs/pedal board
I've also read that a string change is a good time to "polish" the fingers to protect them from grooving. How do I go about doing this without harming them?
Besides a cloth or old toothbrush, what tools/products should I be using? What should I avoid? I imagine some products can be used on one part of the guitar and not on others (i.e. probably can't use the product for polishing the keyhead to polish the lacquer body!)
I'm not sure if there's anything I should be doing under the hood, besides lubing (which I have done before) but if there are any suggestions, please share!
Thanks in advance!
Ben
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Lamar S-10, Goodrich L10K VP, Carvin Vintage 16 all-tube amp, John Pearse Cryogenic steel tone bar, John Pearse strings. |
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Steven Cummings
From:
Texas
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Posted 20 Jun 2011 4:39 pm
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Hey Ben....
buddy I'm in the same boat as you. Just purchased a great old MSA and I don't have a clue how to lube, maintain, adjust anything on this thing. I'm sure hoping someone will have an award winning answer for you/us....
Come on guys.... help us out here will ya?
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Lookin' on the sunny side.... |
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Matt Teske
From:
Seattle, WA
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Ray Anderson
From:
Jenkins, Kentucky USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2011 5:48 pm Clean and lobe
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Hey Guys, I ain't no veteran but I clean and lube mine and haven't destroyed it yet. I have 3 and going on my first year. For my polished surfaces I use Maguires aluminum wheel polish(be sure to use lots of clean soft rags,) just wipe on and back off until it shines you can use Mother's if you like.The more you rub the more it shines. Then I use Murphy's oil soap on my lacquered ones wit Q-tips in the tight places. But first flip it over and use 3n1 machine oil on all moving objects, don't over do it. While it's on it's back I put some oil on the changer fingers and let run down a minute or two. Good time to get the pedals too. I do this first and then clean. String her up and tune and you are good to go. Hope this helps.  P.S. absolutely no WD 40  Ray |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 20 Jun 2011 7:12 pm
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Ray has got it right. I would be very careful though when it comes to the change fingers. I just wipe them off lightly after oiling. You can cause yourself some pretty bad problems if the surface where the string crosses becomes uneven.
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Bob |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2011 7:33 pm Re: changing strings for 1st time...time to clean? Suggesti
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| Benjamin Jayne wrote: |
dust (and is that pet hair!?) in the changer
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If the changer moves freely, I wouldn't worry about it. Taking the changer apart is a lot of work. Most of us never do it, or maybe once in 10 years.
| Benjamin Jayne wrote: |
I've also read that a string change is a good time to "polish" the fingers to protect them from grooving. How do I go about doing this without harming them?
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Under the wound strings I would ignore damage to the changer surface
Under the plain strings I would ignore it unless I can feel and see a groove on the changer surface. In this case the vibrating string will probably make an unpleasant buzzing sound. When you sand it, be careful to leave it round (flat spots will buzz) and to keep the sanded material out of the changer (i.e. use wet paper.) On a deep groove I would start with coarse 600 grit paper. Then 1500 grit for finer smoothing. Then perhaps a cotton wadding polish. However I have recently discovered that it may sound better to skip the last stage and leave it a bit rough from the 1500 grit. |
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Benjamin Jayne
From:
Orange County California, USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2011 8:17 pm Re: Clean and lobe
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| Ray Anderson wrote: |
| For my polished surfaces I use Maguires aluminum wheel polish(be sure to use lots of clean soft rags,) just wipe on and back off until it shines you can use Mother's if you like.The more you rub the more it shines. Then I use Murphy's oil soap on my lacquered ones wit Q-tips in the tight places. |
Just to make sure I understand this correctly, because I've never used these products before, the Maguires aluminum wheel polish and Mother's (whats that?) goes on the METAL parts (key head, changer, legs, pedal bar, pedals, knee levers, etc) and the Murphy's oil soap is for use on the lacquer/colored wood areas, correct?
I have a blonde wood fret board with what appears to be screen-painted fret boards (or maybe they are inlays?) I just planned on using a dry cloth to wipe off the dust, but is there a safe product that will make it more dust-resistant?
Also, I'm really clueless about the rollers. They appear to be brass, or at least not aluminum, so I don't know how to clean them. The area underneath the rollers is full of dust and grime. Do you recommend disassembling to get under there, or just use a q-tip? Maybe a can of compressed air would work?
Finally, there is a thin "line" of light-brownish grime where the key-head meets the lacquer body. I'm afraid to treat this area with either product because I'm afraid it will damage adjacent material not intended for it's use. Should I just remove the keyhead? Is this done by unscrewing the 4 screws beneath the hood, or is there more to it? Is it troublesome to align or re-assemble?
Finally, I do notice slight buzzing when my guitar is not plugged in on some strings, so I may take a close look at the changer fingers to be sure there are no grooves. Sanding seems dangerous to me-any other methods for taking out light grooves that doesn't risk damaging the guitar?
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Lamar S-10, Goodrich L10K VP, Carvin Vintage 16 all-tube amp, John Pearse Cryogenic steel tone bar, John Pearse strings. |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2011 7:57 am
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remember if you dont use the exact string gauges AND type (nickel vs stainless) you will probably end up having to reset your pedals and knees. on a perfectly set up guitar, this may be an ordeal. i have an old Sho-Bud permanent that plays perfect and i wont even change the strings due to this.
a lot of times on a steel, if it aint broke, leave it alone.
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'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2011 8:07 am Re: Clean and lobe
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| Benjamin Jayne wrote: |
The area underneath the rollers is full of dust and grime. Do you recommend disassembling to get under there, or just use a q-tip? Maybe a can of compressed air would work? |
When the strings are removed, it should be simple to remove the axle and rollers. Then wipe off the crud. Then a little oil here is a good idea. On some guitars the rollers are "gauged" (deeper grooves for the big strings) so maybe you should remember which is 1,2,3,4 etc.
| Benjamin Jayne wrote: |
.. grime where the key-head meets the lacquer body. ... Should I just remove the keyhead? Is this done by unscrewing the 4 screws beneath the hood, or is there more to it? Is it troublesome to align or re-assemble? |
If the screws are easily accessible then it would be easy to remove the keyhead, but I wouldn't bother because the guitar won't sound any better.
| Benjamin Jayne wrote: |
Finally, I do notice slight buzzing when my guitar is not plugged in on some strings, so I may take a close look at the changer fingers to be sure there are no grooves. Sanding seems dangerous to me-any other methods for taking out light grooves that doesn't risk damaging the guitar? |
Yes, it is risky to remove (sand etc) material from the changer surface. Obviously you can't do this too many times. If you don't hear the unpleasant buzzing thru the amp, then I would suggest leaving it alone.
The only alternative is to replace the changer fingers. |
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Benjamin Jayne
From:
Orange County California, USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2011 9:09 am
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Thanks for all the help. I'll have to take a close look at the fingers before deciding to do anything drastic like sanding. It could be my technique that's causing the buzzing-I'll need to experiment a bit more.
Good suggestions on the rollers, and the dvd sounds like a good investment as well, Joey.
I am planning to change gauges and go from SS to nickel wound. In addition, I have a wound 6th string and would like to try a plain one. I don't mind adjusting things on the steel-it's kind of fun, actually.
The strings I have on the guitar are quite old, and I believe at least some of them are not "PSG" strings, but electric guitar strings instead, and I'm almost certain they are not all the same brand/type. I can't be sure because I didn't string it up myself, but they don't feel uniform and the pack of strings I got from the seller were a hodgepodge of different brands/types.
I'm using a SS Pearse cryo-tone bar, so I figured the Pearse Nickel strings would be b est to start with. If I don't like them, I can try something else.
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Lamar S-10, Goodrich L10K VP, Carvin Vintage 16 all-tube amp, John Pearse Cryogenic steel tone bar, John Pearse strings. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2011 8:44 pm Changing strings for the first time.....Time to clean any s
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Since it is your first string change may be a good time to do some cleaning and checking. When you get all the strings off it is a good time to check the rollers and clean. Check each roller and see if it rolls freely. If not a needle file may be needed to clean the burrs out of the slot. Take a sheet of paper and draw 10 circles in a row from top to bottom. Number them from top to bottom to keep them in order. As you remove the rollers place each roller in the proper number circle. Clean the slots in the neck head. I suggest some 4-0 steel wool and clean and slick the roller shaft smooth. clean each roller making sure you return it to the correct number circle on the paper. I have found the best lube for the rollers is get some of that white fishing reel lube at a sports store. Give the shaft a coat of grease and slide the rollers on in order.
line the rollers and set the shaft in place. Make sure each roller rolls freely before putting strings on. Once I done this every 3 string change I go through this and it has worked well for me. That white fishing reel grease stays in place and keeps the roller free moving. Good Luck and Happy Steelin |
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Jack Carpenter
From:
Cedar City, Utah USA
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Posted 22 Jun 2011 10:55 am
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| Another good site for maintenance etc is: steelguitar.com |
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Benjamin Jayne
From:
Orange County California, USA
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Posted 22 Jun 2011 9:08 pm
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| Jack Carpenter wrote: |
| Another good site for maintenance etc is: steelguitar.com |
Very informative everyone, thanks!
I received my new strings in the mail today, so I've decided I'm going to clip off the old strings on Friday and wipe down everything with q-tips and a shammy cloth before I decide to take anything apart, use any products, or start messing with anything. The guitar doesn't have any problems besides a little dust and grime and old strings, so I'm going to go with the old saying "when it 'aint broke, don't go trying to fix it!"
Thanks to all of you, if I find anything out of the ordinary, I now have some guidance regarding what I would need to do, what not to do, and what the risks are of doing each job myself. Since it's my first and only steel, and I really can't afford to do irreparable harm to it, I'm not going to touch the changer fingers, regardless. If I find a problem in a mechanical part like that, I'll just take it to Jim P. and pay the expert to do it right. As for polishing, I think I'll skip it, simply because I'm only going to put more finger prints on it anyway. I'll polish it if I plan to have a photo shoot with her or something!
Thanks again!
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Lamar S-10, Goodrich L10K VP, Carvin Vintage 16 all-tube amp, John Pearse Cryogenic steel tone bar, John Pearse strings.
Last edited by Benjamin Jayne on 22 Jun 2011 9:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Benjamin Jayne
From:
Orange County California, USA
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Posted 22 Jun 2011 9:11 pm
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sorry double post somehow ?
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Lamar S-10, Goodrich L10K VP, Carvin Vintage 16 all-tube amp, John Pearse Cryogenic steel tone bar, John Pearse strings. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 23 Jun 2011 12:57 pm
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good..you're smart enough to just do a soft cloth wipe and change the strings. i think it's best to do nothing if it works fine, i take 2 or 3 strings off at a time and replace them, tuning up by ear as you go in relation to the other strings.
obviously, do a visual check for wear on the changer and free moving rollers....but only deal with problems that are necessary.
you don't rebuild the engine in your car every time you change the oil. |
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Benjamin Jayne
From:
Orange County California, USA
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Posted 23 Jun 2011 1:50 pm
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Any suggestions for what type of cloth to use for wiping down the wood/aluminum? Will any soft cloth that doesn't come apart or leave scratches do? I don't imagine paper towel or a wash cloth would be a good idea. Should I head over to the auto supply store and get a cloth used for shining/waxing?
Is a q-tip going to cause cotton to get stuck in hard to reach places? I'm thinking about the key head and under the rollers, specifically...
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Lamar S-10, Goodrich L10K VP, Carvin Vintage 16 all-tube amp, John Pearse Cryogenic steel tone bar, John Pearse strings. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 23 Jun 2011 5:18 pm
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| i use an old t-shirt. |
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Benjamin Jayne
From:
Orange County California, USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2011 10:12 pm
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Good news: I successfully cleaned (wiped and q-tipped, that is) lubed, and re-strung my guitar for the first time, and it looks better than it did when I bought it (used). I couldn't believe how much gunk came off between the changer fingers and on/under/between rollers! It really shines now, and I didn't even use any cleaning products or use any steel wool/sand paper! I also didn't find any finger grooves or burrs, or any other problems, so I'm very thankful for that.
Bad news: I accidentally wound the bottom 5 strings backwards  I turned the keyhead counterclockwise rather than clockwise, and didn't realize it was causing the string to wrap around bottom-first until after the 6th string. I was too busy trying to get the dang things from slipping out and keeping them straight and didn't even think about it! Once I finished the 6th string, I realized it was pulled right up against the edge of the holder-thingy for the 7th string and suddenly realized what I had done. I strung the top 5 strings correctly after that. I'm not sure if I can un-wind the bottom strings and re-wind them the opposite direction...I'll be ordering a 2nd set soon as backup and will likely end up replacing the bottom strings right away due to my mistake.
The first obvious annoyance I've found as a result is that the bottom 5 strings are now tuned in reverse, so turning the key clockwise lowers the pitch and vice versa. I'm letting the strings sit overnight (after stretching them real good and tuning the open strings to pitch) before re-tuning the pedals (I changed gauges AND went from steel to nickel wound, so the pedals are totally wacked out) so I don't know if I have any tone problems from this mistake. I guess we'll see!
Nothing like rookie mistakes! At least I know I'll never make the same mistake again!!
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Lamar S-10, Goodrich L10K VP, Carvin Vintage 16 all-tube amp, John Pearse Cryogenic steel tone bar, John Pearse strings. |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 25 Jun 2011 4:36 am
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To add to what Chris said, if you are not going remove all the strings, I would recommend removing the first 5, clean the area and replace 1,2,3,4,5 in that order, then remove the top 5,clean, and replace 10,9,8,7,6, in that order.That way when you replace a string,it is in the open, also a soft 1" paint brush is great for cleaning in tight places like inside the keyhead.
BF
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Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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Benjamin Jayne
From:
Orange County California, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2011 12:03 pm
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Yes Bill, I realized starting at the front of the key head and working back would make sense, and I did this correctly. I just tuned up the pedals and levers and had a nice playing session. I'm very happy with the sound. I can't tell any tone difference from having the low strings wound backwards, so I might just leave it. I DO notice a difference in brightness and sustain with the new strings, though, and they are quite a bit smoother on the left hand, as well. I'll prob. have to make some small tuning adjustments each session for a while while the strings settle, but it's definitely playable right now, and looks and sounds fantastic!
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Lamar S-10, Goodrich L10K VP, Carvin Vintage 16 all-tube amp, John Pearse Cryogenic steel tone bar, John Pearse strings. |
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John Peay
From:
Cumming, Georgia USA
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Posted 28 Jun 2011 2:45 pm Whew...
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Ben, you inspired me to do the same. Six-month beginner here, and just did my first complete string change and cleaning on my Derby SD-10. Great tips here, thanks all. Put a set of nickel Jagwires on, same gauges as came off.
I also replaced all 10 Grover tuning machines with new ones. The old ones all had more backlash than they should, these new ones are much better. And 3 of them were not tight in the keyhead for various reasons (stripped barrel nuts, etc), and those were the strings I had trouble tuning, the tuner needle always jumped around like crazy on those. All strings are much more stable while tuning now, I suppose for me at least, 6 months will be my string change time. Probably around 400 playing hours on them since I bought this guitar (strings were new when I brought it home).
Cleaned a ton of grime out of the keyhead area, as well as cleaned and re-lubed the rollers. Didn't touch the changer fingers, other than a basic wipe-and-relube. Replaced a couple of nylon tuning nuts that were somehow too big/stripped, and would occasionally slip during a pull.
Overall, my guitar looks nearly new, better than when I bought it, and sounds fantastic (well, compared to how my playing normally sounds).
Ok, time to practice...
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