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Topic: safe way to de-gunk changer without teardown |
Igor Fiksman
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 30 Jun 2011 2:18 pm |
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I am a proud owner of a new (to me) Sho-Bud ProIII custom D-10. It is a beatiful guitar, sound like a dream, all original, I am in heaven. The only thing that is wrong with it, besides some minor adjustments and pending copedant swaps, is the fact that is appears to have never been cleaned in any way. The changer and entire undercarriage metal parts have a yellowish film on them that is part nicotine and part some ancient lubricant that has turned to a hard coat an all the parts. If I was a bit braver, I would just take the whole thing completely apart and perfectly polish and flawlessly put the whole thing back together without any problems or lost parts. But I am not ready for this kind of undertaking just yet. Is there a way to clean this gunk of the changer and other parts with some type of magical cleaner/ mild degreaser without field stripping the whole guitar, and more importantly without endangering the beautiful laquer finish of this vintage instument. Has anyone tried this?
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SHO-BUD Professional SD-10 Black, SHO-BUD Pro III Custom D-10 Red, Goodrich Matchbox 6A, Steeler's Choice seat, Quilter Steelaire Amps. |
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Al Miller
From:
Waxahachie Texas
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Posted 30 Jun 2011 6:57 pm Cleaning
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That is a great old guitar I wouldn't use any cleaner on it for fear of getting it on the la
Finish. Mickey Adams Is the cleaning Gu-Ru here on the forum he is good very careful thorough and he has a very speedy turn around . He is also very reasonable for the amount of work he does . If you ask me that's the avenue I would pursue anything else is a waste of time and money when a guitar is in that shape . Just do a search for ole Mickey and send him a note and price him .. He's a great fella.
Good luck
Boo Miller
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AL (BOO) Miller
Mullen D10
76 Emmons P/P
2022 65 Emmons Resound P/P D10 |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 30 Jun 2011 9:42 pm
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Looking at those pictures - if it's as gunked up as it appears to be, I would just tear it down and soak all the metal parts (especially the changer) in Blaster PB-50. There is a 'standard' version and a 'catalyst' version - the catalyst version is intense, foul stuff that absolutely has to be used under a fume hood or outside, but it does really get practically anything off. But there is no way I would get that stuff on a lacquer finish.
The 'standard' Blaster version might not hurt some lacquer finishes, but I would try it on a small unexposed part of the finish and see. I just did my Sho Bud universal (late 70s 12-string, lacquered single body with Super Pro mechanics). I did tear the whole thing down, but I did use a little bit on the finish to get gunk and stains off and it didn't do any harm - but YMMV, so don't assume it won't be a problem for you. Always check on a small unexposed area of finish.
I usually can use Naptha (lighter fluid) to clean metal parts and lacquer finishes without problems, but that guitar looks gunked up enough that it may not be enough - naptha didn't get the gunk off my Sho Bud. Even with naptha, I would always try it on a small unexposed finish area to make sure it's OK.
Maybe that changer isn't as gunked up as it looks, but mine looked pretty much like that and changes were sticking like crazy. I really couldn't play the guitar till I tore it down, cleaned it up, and reassembled. Really - it isn't that hard, but it is time-consuming and requires some patience. It's not necessary to get the parts perfect and at a high level of shine, but the result of a reasonably careful job is well worth the time and trouble. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2011 7:13 am
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| I think those Sho-Buds are the easiest to clean because you can just push the changer axle out with a pencil. You don't have to dis-assemble anything, except loosen the strings and maybe disconnect the lower-return springs. |
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Mickey Adams
From:
Bandera Texas
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Posted 1 Jul 2011 9:33 am
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Yep she looks like a great guitar!...Al of these posts are good advice, and will work just fine. Extremely contaminated aluminum can also be soaked in 1 part Muriatic acid, 10 parts water for a short period...this will dissolve almost anything..Be very careful not to expose metals for longer than necessary, and thoroughly clean with clean water afterwards. The mechanism if fairly simple in these great old buds, and a good cleaning can do wonders for the instrument...ill be happy to overhaul her for you if you like for about 300.00....
_________________
ARTIST RELATIONS: MSA GUITARS
2017 MSA LEGEND XL D10, S10, Studio Pro S12 EXE9
Mullen G2, Rittenberry S10, Infinity D10, Zumsteel 8+9
Anderson, Buscarino, Fender, Roman Guitars, Sarno Octal, Revelation Preamps, BJS BARS, Lots of Blackface Fenders! |
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Igor Fiksman
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2011 2:05 pm
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hi, guys, thanks for all the replies, as usual, tons of great info here. Mickey, 300 bucks for and overhaul by a master of your caliber is a screaming good deal. I am a fool for not jumping right on it. convincing my wife, however, that a second steel is needed is hard enough. Telling her that that new steel needs 300 for setup plus 200 for 2 way shipping will put me sleeping on them curb. I have to tackle this one with some elbow grease. And I started just that. I am removing one cross shaft at a time, polishing and cleaning and reinstalling all components before moving to the next one. It is a slow and painstaking process, but them results are undeniable. It won't shine like those Morehead or Coop buds, but it will play like one. I am savings them changers for last, desert if you will. BTW, I reader somewhere, that you have to remove the aluminum necks to pull out changers into these buds, is that true? I will post pics when I'm done, wish me luck.
cess, but them results are undeniable. It won't shine like those Morehead or Coop buds, but it will play like one. I am savings them changers for last, desert if you will. BTW, I reader somewhere, that you have to remove the aluminum necks to pull out changers into these buds, is that true? I will post pics when I'm done, wish me luck.
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SHO-BUD Professional SD-10 Black, SHO-BUD Pro III Custom D-10 Red, Goodrich Matchbox 6A, Steeler's Choice seat, Quilter Steelaire Amps. |
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Igor Fiksman
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2011 2:19 pm
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sorry about crazy spelling and double posting, I posted this reply with my phone, damn you autocorrect.
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SHO-BUD Professional SD-10 Black, SHO-BUD Pro III Custom D-10 Red, Goodrich Matchbox 6A, Steeler's Choice seat, Quilter Steelaire Amps. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 1 Jul 2011 2:52 pm
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Taking it apart is your best bet. You need to pull all the rods to get the changers out anyway.
1] Take plenty of pictures
2] make a chart of the Changer and bell crank holes each rod passes through.
Any of the builders have a blank copedant chart you can use to map out the leverage points for each change: Just assign letters (e.g. A,B,C or D, A closest to axle) for each changer hole and assign 1 or 2 for the bell crank position (#1 closest to the crosshaft).
Just remember.......it ain't rocket science! |
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John Turbeville
From:
Carlsbad, ca
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Posted 1 Jul 2011 5:50 pm
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| hey once you have cleaned the changer, do you need to re-lubricate it, if so what do you use? |
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Mickey Adams
From:
Bandera Texas
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Posted 2 Jul 2011 12:40 pm
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I use Exxon 2380 Turbine Engine oil...Synthetic and very light.
Yes the neck has to come off to allow access to the topside mounting screws, which means the pickup too I believe.
_________________
ARTIST RELATIONS: MSA GUITARS
2017 MSA LEGEND XL D10, S10, Studio Pro S12 EXE9
Mullen G2, Rittenberry S10, Infinity D10, Zumsteel 8+9
Anderson, Buscarino, Fender, Roman Guitars, Sarno Octal, Revelation Preamps, BJS BARS, Lots of Blackface Fenders! |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 2 Jul 2011 5:02 pm
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I'm still waiting for that guide to come out,
"Pedal Steel Guitar Ownership: the E-Z Way!"
Though unless it's just a box full of hundred-dollar bills and repairmen's addresses, I suspect it may not be too helpful.  |
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Pit Lenz
From:
Cologne, Germany
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Posted 3 Jul 2011 12:51 am
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Hi Igor,
if you want to take off the whole changer assembly, Mickey is right, of course.
But as you have been courageous enough before to take the step-by-step-road with your pullrods already, let me suggest the same method to clean your changers:
- Find a long wooden dowel (I used the grip of a painter`s brush) with a little less diameter than the changer axle.
- Now unhook ALL of the helper springs. This has to be done, as the spring tension would keep the axle to move freely and the changer parts from being moved without effort on and off the axle. Put numbers on them or tag them to get them back to the SAME changer after cleaning.
- Then you can drive out the axle with light hammer blows on the dowel. Don`t use anything harder (like a screw or so) to avoid to marr the axle`s end.
Starting from the top string end, push the axle out just a bit to free the first changer. Now pull back the dowel a bit, unhook the pullrods, and the first changer`s free to be taken out.
- After a good cleaning, put it back in, put back the rods and go on to the next changer, and so on.
Always keep the dowel in the hole behind the axle to hold the already cleaned changers in position and leave only space to free one changer at a time.
- After you´ve done with the last string, the dowel will be holding all the changers and the axle is completely free. Lube it good and c arefully put it back in, pushing the dowel out of the assembly.
- After that, put back all the springs.
This had been my first changer takeapart and worked flawlessly for me on my Sho~Bud Pro-I.
And, by the way, though this method avoids the scary part of a whole disassembly, it takes you one big step further on your steel mechanics road that you`ve already started.
Hope that helped...
pit  |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 3 Jul 2011 1:34 am
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| Quote: |
1] Take plenty of pictures
2] make a chart of the Changer and bell crank holes each rod passes through.
Any of the builders have a blank copedant chart you can use to map out the leverage points for each change: Just assign letters (e.g. A,B,C or D, A closest to axle) for each changer hole and assign 1 or 2 for the bell crank position (#1 closest to the crosshaft). |
Oh, yeah - I actually shoot a detailed movie of everything before I start, and a chart of the bell crank and changer holes is critical for me. I may wind up moving things around some in the end, but it's nice to know exactly where everything was beforehand. The Bud I just redid did not require the neck to be removed, but it's a wood neck, so YMMV.
As a lubricant, I typically use Tri-Flow in the non-spray can. I lube the changer quite freely and then shake it out (outside) and let it sit for a while on several thicknesses of paper towels before reinstall. But light machine oil works well also - I also prefer synthetics, which seem (to me) to be less prone to gunk up over time.
| Quote: |
"Pedal Steel Guitar Ownership: the E-Z Way!"
Though unless it's just a box full of hundred-dollar bills and repairmen's addresses, I suspect it may not be too helpful. |
Funny guy. 
Actually, I consider that the guys I've seen doing this kind of work are quite reasonable, when you consider the time and energy involved. It does require time and patience to do this correctly.
But I also think that, in some strange way, understanding the mechanics, at the level of being able to tear things apart and optimize things for what I personally want, helps me as a player. Not to mention that there is a high level of satisfaction at being able to do this kind of stuff, for me at least. |
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John Turbeville
From:
Carlsbad, ca
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Posted 7 Jul 2011 4:56 pm
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Ok, I just completed a complete cleaning the changer on my old sho-bud. I broke a tuning part and had to tear it down anyway. Heres my 2 cents, keep in mind Im a newer steel player but really good with mechanical stuff.....oh and Jim P. at steel guitars helped with some good advice.
Its pretty easy, it takes a lot of time-probably 4-5 hours or so-(on an 3/4 sd-10), I used lighter fluid to degrease and 3 in 1 oil to lube it up. Working on these guys is part art, I found a lot of gunk and parts that needed to be modded a bit to get to work right.
Its much smoother now, and tuned up just fine. I can already tell it going play cleaner than it was-and it was really pretty good before.
The main thing I would say is that it definitely will help your playing as you are constantly looking at the which strings (and bends) you are working on, besides the mechanical stuff I find to be fun. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 7 Jul 2011 7:20 pm
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| Pit Lenz wrote: |
- Find a long wooden dowel (I used the grip of a painter`s brush) with a little less diameter than the changer axle..........This had been my first changer takeapart and worked flawlessly for me on my Sho~Bud Pro-I..........And, by the way, though this method avoids the scary part of a whole disassembly, |
This can work with the Pro-I because it is a single neck. The problem is removing the C-6th changer axle. The upper neck will either block the dowel from going in or block the axle from coming out.
Anyway, you have to de-rod each finger to drop it, so why not just do it right in the first place. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 7 Jul 2011 7:37 pm
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On second thought, I suppose you could tap in multiple 1" dowel segments from the inside of the C-6th changer and drive the axle out the the "bass" side. You would always run the risk of: a segment getting jammed, or the segments parting and allowing another finger to drop out.
That seems like a lot of work just to avoid removing the entire changer. Also pulling all the fingers together allows you to polish the changer en masse to maintain a uniform radius. |
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Mike Cass
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Posted 8 Jul 2011 2:39 am
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'Bud's are a piece of cake. Cowboy up and dissassemble it. That'll impress the Missus and save you $$.
Just pay attention to how it comes apart, then re-assemble it accordingly. Use a vidcam, take notes, etc. as recommended.
Now Im no Guru, but Im not too shabby at cleaning up a steel guitar, and not just Emmons guitars.....
Ive done at least a couple hundred Sho-Bud's over the last 25 years between my personal clients and most of whats come thru Bobbe's shop since 2000, so trust me when I tell you that if you dont dissassemble the guitar and remove the changers you'll never get it really clean. Besides, as Al said, you run the risk of ruining the finish with cleaning solutions if it stays assembled. If you do get it apart Id place the changer parts, shafts, cranks, etc. in a vibratory tumbler to clean and restore the original patina to each part. After that, fingers etc., can be buffed. The tumbler along with the proper media is the real deal for professional results. Remember, all those parts were tumbled before assembly.....that is where the correct patina came from in the first place. Most all builders tumble their parts to deburr and finish. Pay attention and keep it simple. Duane Marrs, who probably knew more about Sho-Bud's than most anyone recommended using silicon spray lube on ANY all/pull changer. I use it, and with excellent results.
Feel free to call me for any advice @ 615-446-5952. Im in Nashville, probably not too far from you.
Good Luck.
sincerely,
MC |
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