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Post new topic Newbie question re tunings -Please help!
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Author Topic:  Newbie question re tunings -Please help!
Steve Lipsey


From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
Post  Posted 12 May 2011 12:53 pm    
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I play slide (DGDGBD) in a rock/country band, an Americana trio, and a blues band and am going to add an 8-string lap steel....(Bob Allen is building me a beauty!)

How come most tunings are C based? Or E for pedal steel.... Most of my music is in G, and I'll still be playing slide in G.....is there a good G tuning I can use, or why should I be in A or C? Is it string gauges, or what?

I was thinking of something like DGDEGBDE, which is my open-G with two 6ths stuck into it....no learning curve, good majors and minors, the slants for 4ths and 5ths work well - WHAT ELSE SHOULD I BE ASKING OF A TUNING TO KNOW IF IT WILL WORK FOR ME?

Thanks!
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Bob Hoffnar


From:
Austin, Tx
Post  Posted 12 May 2011 1:18 pm    
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For the way I think the open tuning has nothing to do with what key I am playing in. Thinking that the open tuning relates to the key you are in is something bottleneck guitar players do. I don't know of any steel players that concern themselves with that. The different tunings are for different sounds, intervalic options and registers. Your tuning should be fine unless you want to play accurate transcriptions that somebody used a different tuning on.
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Steve Lipsey


From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
Post  Posted 12 May 2011 1:51 pm    
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Bob & others-
Thanks....yeah, actually I play easily in any key even though tuned in G, I just don't understand if there is some reason why C6 is the preferred tuning...it does give the Cmaj and Ami chords their own contiguous places and fits that range in normal string gauges, is that it? For people who never played slide, it makes a lot of sense...

I could certainly switch to a C-based tuning, but I don't see the need to give up all the fretboard knowledge I have unless there is a reason...

I'm also trying to understand it to see if there is some other reason to think about making my proposed tuning different (i.e., intervals in different places, roots, 6ths in specific strings, etc.)

I feel like I am reinventing a wheel here and wonder why...I can't be the only open-G slide guy who plays lap steel also!
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Steve Lipsey


From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
Post  Posted 12 May 2011 1:59 pm    
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Another point (thanks for reading!) is that on regular slide, I finger melodies and chords with 3 fingers for fingerpicking stuff, and play behind the slide to get minors, 9ths, etc, by holding down strings on frets under/behind the slide...so I can pretty much do it all and not be limited by the slide.

I can pull strings on lap slide (e.g., to get a 7th chord from a 6th), minors are built into the tuning, is there anything else I should know about stuff that I won't be able to do any more or ways to do it?

And would specific factors in a tuning be important to that (I know about enabling slants...)
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Steinar Gregertsen


From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
Post  Posted 12 May 2011 2:20 pm     Re: Newbie question re tunings -Please help!
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Steve Lipsey wrote:


I was thinking of something like DGDEGBDE, which is my open-G with two 6ths stuck into it....no learning curve, good majors and minors, the slants for 4ths and 5ths work well -


Perhaps modify it just a little so it is identical to the 8-string A6 tuning, just a whole step lower. Then it would go like this:

D
B
G
E
D
B
G
E

A6 is a wonderful tuning and there is some good instructional material available for it if you would like to study it closer, it would be easy to transfer to this G6 tuning.
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Steve Lipsey


From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
Post  Posted 12 May 2011 4:35 pm    
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A6 pattern in a G6-
Yes! this looks like the answer. A little different on the low end - it loses that nice alternating thumb on the low D and G - but otherwise seems great.(and I could bump the bottom string down to a D if I need to for the gig or song).

This is also the same pattern as C6, right? scale tones lo to hi of 61356135?

-->How do I know what gauges to use? The Melbert steel is 23.35 inch scale....there must be a website with a string calculator for any scale?

And using a "standard" tuning will help, I was willing to go without instruction and just develop my own style (been playing for a lot of years) but it never hurts to take a few lessons from the greats....will be nice to be able to play tab as written and just know it is a step down...
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Steinar Gregertsen


From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
Post  Posted 12 May 2011 4:45 pm    
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Steve Lipsey wrote:


This is also the same pattern as C6, right? scale tones lo to hi of 61356135?


Yes, it's the same intervals as the "high" C6 with the G on top.

For string gauges, go here - http://www.hawaiiansteel.com/learning/gauges.php
Ely's suggestions will work fine for a 23+" scale..
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L. Bogue Sandberg

 

From:
Chassell, Michigan, USA
Post  Posted 12 May 2011 5:21 pm    
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I second Steinar's version of G6, although I usually keep the bottom string tuned to F, making it a G13 with a nice 7th chord at the bottom. It's the dobro player's equivalent of Junior Brown's C13. That lets me use familiar bluegrass/oldtime chord positions as reference points.

Bogue
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Steve Lipsey


From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
Post  Posted 12 May 2011 9:53 pm    
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OK - I think we are on to something here!
G6 with an E on the bottom, floating to a D for bass 1/5 thumb picking, or an F for a nice 7th!
I like it!
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Steve Lipsey


From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
Post  Posted 14 May 2011 8:16 am     A big question just popped into my head!!!!!
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Bob H mentioned that "the open tuning has nothing to do with what key I am playing in. Thinking that the open tuning relates to the key you are in is something bottleneck guitar players do."

I came from slide guitar, where open tuning gives you open strings to play - are you saying you don't do that in lap steel? (or do you capo?)

And e.g., if I'm tuned to A6 and want to play a G chord, I've lost that nice bottom open G and have to go up to the 10th fret or play a slant - right?

Help me understand how steel players think differently than slide players!!!!
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Steve Lipsey


From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
Post  Posted 14 May 2011 10:26 am    
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I actually moved this thread to a new topic, called "Help me stop thinking like a slide guitar player", which I now understand is the root of my confusion on tunings!
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Stephen Abruzzo

 

From:
Philly, PA
Post  Posted 14 May 2011 8:23 pm     Re: A big question just popped into my head!!!!!
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Steve Lipsey wrote:
Bob H mentioned that "the open tuning has nothing to do with what key I am playing in. Thinking that the open tuning relates to the key you are in is something bottleneck guitar players do."

I came from slide guitar, where open tuning gives you open strings to play - are you saying you don't do that in lap steel? (or do you capo?)


Well, while it's true that slide players use open strings, they don't have to. There are moveable blues scales that work for any chord and are played at the appropriate fret.

Duane Allman played in Open E and his classic Statesboro Blues was in the key of D. Consequently, much of his solo for that song was centered around the 10th fret (D).
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Steve Lipsey


From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
Post  Posted 14 May 2011 11:38 pm    
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Yeah, i think I'm settling on C6 with an E on top GACEGACE, seems to be what folks do, can buy string sets for it And I can find my open G at the 7th fret...
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