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Topic: Getting Frustrated Trying to Find a Steel - Please Help!! |
Gary Rosner
From:
Lansing, MI
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Posted 25 Apr 2011 1:39 pm |
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I'm new to the Forum, and this is my first post. I don't have a lap steel right now but I really want one badly. Maybe you can help me select one that will meet my needs. I've done quite a bit of searching and it is getting frustrating. It seems like you have vintage screamers and expensive works of art and not that much in between.
I'm a beginner at steel but I've been working hard at slide guitar for about a year. I've been playing guitar for a long time. I'm 46 and I don't want to buy something just to learn on, that I'll want to sell in 9 months when I improve.
I want to use a steel for alt-country, country rock and country. I'd even like to learn some old-school country like Hank Williams tunes.
I had an old Magnatone that I bought for about 300.00 a few years ago, but I sold it because it had a loud buzz to it (I know single coils do), the tuners slipped and it did not have nearly the sustain that I want. It was a very, very light guitar and maybe that was part of the problem. It sounded like it was very light.
I presently have a "Coodercaster" guitar I had someone put together with a Lollar string-through pickup and a high (lap steel style) nut. It is (was) a Japanese Fender Squire Bullet from the 1980s. I am not happy with this guitar either because the sustain is poor. It does not sustain as much as other guitars I use for slide playing that don't have really high action and a steel-type pickup. It does not do justice to the Lollar pickup. It was an experiment that didn't work out very well.
So what I'm hoping I can find is a lap steel that has more sustain than most vintage steels and sounds more like a pedal steel but also can be used for rock and does not mind some distortion. Like a cross between the Sierra lap steel and a vintage Supro. Does anything like that exist? A steel that sounds more like a pedal steel than most vintage lap steels do but costs less than 800.00 and can also get a little down and dirty if the job requires it. Not bluesy dirty necessarily; clarity and sustain are more important.
Maybe I can send a builder my Lollar pickup and he can build me a steel that does it justice?
The description of the MSA Superslide sounds interesting but I don't want to spend that kind of money unless I absolutely have to in order to get that kind of sound (a versatile steel).
Does such an animal exist (or do you know of someone who can build something like that)? I am willing to pay for sustain and tone but not esthetics. There are many really beautiful, expensive lap steels out there but I'm looking for an ugly, utilitarian tone monster that sounds a bit more pedal steel like than most lap steels.
Thank you!!! |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Mike D
From:
Phx, Az
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Posted 25 Apr 2011 2:05 pm
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I did this not too long ago with one of Jason's pickups.
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 25 Apr 2011 2:24 pm
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A used Chandler RH2 is a really good deal, though you might want to replace the pup with some sort of humbucker if you're using a lot of distortion (warning: may require routing the body!) Another one to look into is the Gold Tone LS6, though you're pretty much stuck with a single coil on those.
Check out Elderly Music for some other ideas.
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Primitive Utility Steel |
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Gary Rosner
From:
Lansing, MI
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Posted 25 Apr 2011 2:39 pm Reply to Replies
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Thanks for the replies. That is way too pretty to be called a frying pan. I bet it sounds great. I'd be afraid to take that anywhere (certainly anywhere that serves beer!).
I don't think that Rickenbacker will end up selling in my price range and even if it does, I don't think that is the sound I'm going for. The ones I've heard on record have their own sound that, to me, does not hint of a pedal-steel-without-pedals type sound. They are great, but not what I'm looking for, I don't think.
There is a record by Bill Hullett called "Two-Lane Blacktop" that I'm listening to right now. He uses a 1938 Rickenbacker Lap Steel on this record (3rd song). The playing is fantastic, far, far better than I'm capable of, but that is not the sound I'm going for. Maybe Hullett could make that thing sound like pedal steel without pedals, but I'd buy one of those if I mainly wanted to rock and roll. Didn't David Lindley use one on the "Running On Empty" solo?
I guess I need to hear what one of those Rics would sound like playing clean. |
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Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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Posted 25 Apr 2011 3:26 pm
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If single coil noise is going to be an issue for you, then that cuts the vintage steel options down considerably.
Add to the fact that the bulk of them are single coils, but proper electronics shielding is virtually non existent on most.
If you like the tone of that string through Lollar, then I'd say put it on a better steel, either on a new build or mod an existing slab.
Its a good pickup and on a good body it should ring for days.
Here is one I recently finished up with one of those Lollars.
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_________________
Some misc pics of my hand crafted steels
Follow me on Facebook here |
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James Kerr
From:
Scotland, UK
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Gary Rosner
From:
Lansing, MI
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Posted 25 Apr 2011 4:14 pm
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James, they are hard enough to play, let alone build. Maybe in another lifetime, I'll try building something like that. In this one, I'd probably saw my finger off.
Tom, that steel is beautiful. I bet that has more sustain than a vintage lap steel. I'd probably love it! Do you ever build simpler instruments that sound as good as that one but don't look as pretty, take less time to build and are less expensive? I'm guessing not because it is obvious that you are an artist and you create functional works of art. I've seen pictures of many of your guitars and each one is a work of art. I'm sure they are fine, functional instruments too, but not something one would want to take out of the house too often.
I'm probably in the minority, but I'd actually prefer a plainer looking guitar. I have always had that problem with G&L guitars--most of them are too darned pretty. |
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James Nottage
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2011 4:30 pm Frustrated finding a lap steel
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I can sympathize with you and when I first decided to act on learning steel was confused by the choices out there. I decided on the George Boards Stealth, 8 strings, wonderful sound and affordable. You can sometimes find them used, but George has made some special offers. I got mine in Koa for less than your $800 and the all black versions can be had in the $600 range. Highly recommended and and their design reflects traditions of old with high functionality.
James Nottage
_________________
Clinesmith S-8; Pettingill P6; Rick-Style Vintage 47 Amp |
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Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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Posted 25 Apr 2011 4:55 pm
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Thanks Gary, I do enjoy building them. Not all my stuff has to be super fancy over the top.
They are hand built one at a time right here in the USA to each players spec, so you can get them most anyway you want.
Only thing I don't do is plastic fretboards and cheap hardware.
Anyways, if you want, feel free to PM or mail me and I'd be happy to discuss things further if you like.
_________________
Some misc pics of my hand crafted steels
Follow me on Facebook here |
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Scott Thomas
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David Eastwood
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Norman Evans
From:
Tennessee
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Posted 25 Apr 2011 5:41 pm
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| Gary, Check your e-mail. Thanks, Norm |
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William Craven
From:
South Carolina, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2011 8:28 pm Chandler
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I'm no carpenter but the routing job was easy. I got some electrical help with the wiring. Total cost $325. I'll put another humbucker in it soon and replace the bridge with a strat adjustable or wraparound tailpiece.
_________________
www.tentoesup.com
www.facebook.com/tentoesupband |
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Steve Perry
From:
Elizabethtown Ky, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2011 8:21 am
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I think you can get awfully close to what you want with one of the $100 Rondo SX lap steels. http://www.rondomusic.com/lg1na.html I'm using a bone stock one in C6 through a Fender Pro Jr and get that old style, non-pedal type tone. Here's a video of me playing mine. The amp Vol and Tone is on 6 and the guitar is at about 7-8. It's clean with just the tiniest bit of edge to it. Please pay attention to the tone.... and not the playing! 
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=209091385781136
Steve Perry |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 26 Apr 2011 9:19 am Re: Chandler
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| William Craven wrote: |
| I'm no carpenter but the routing job was easy. I got some electrical help with the wiring. Total cost $325. I'll put another humbucker in it soon and replace the bridge with a strat adjustable or wraparound tailpiece. |
Do NOT use a wraparound tailpiece!!!!! They have a built in curve to match the radius of a standard guitar fingerboard and you want a steel guitar to have NO radius, i.e the strings need to be flat. You want to be able to strum all 6 strings simultaneously without having to press down on the bar at all.
Likewise, a hardtail strat bridge is likely to rob sustain. You do NOT need to "intonate" a steel guitar at the bridge, so you gain nothing from having adjustable saddles, unlike a standard guitar where the scale length actually shifts because of the distance needed to press the string to the frets.
The bridge on the Chandler is excellent and needs no replacement. The string spacing should be fine for a standard Gibson style humbucker.
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Primitive Utility Steel |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 26 Apr 2011 12:33 pm
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Gary, I think that the West Coast Steels guitars might be just what you're looking for. The Lollar/Supro pickup will not give you the sound you want, in my opinion. It's much more of a rock pickup than a pedal steel type pickup. The George L's pickup used in the West Coast steels is closer to a pedal steel sound.
I have a lot of different steel manufacturers on my website, but that's the first one that comes to mind.
Do you have any other audio examples of how you'd like to sound?
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Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
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Ben Sims
From:
New Mexico
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Posted 26 Apr 2011 12:56 pm
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| One thing to keep in mind is that it is possible to get a passable "rock" sound out of almost any pickup if you have a good distortion or overdrive pedal. But the clean sound is pretty much all in the guitar and pickup. So if the clean sound is a priority, focus on buying a guitar that does what you want in that department. |
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Chris Walke
From:
St Charles, IL
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Posted 26 Apr 2011 12:59 pm Re: Chandler
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| Twayn Williams wrote: |
| The bridge on the Chandler is excellent and needs no replacement. The string spacing should be fine for a standard Gibson style humbucker. |
Pardon the thread drift.
I'm no builder, but I'd have to agree with Twayn on this one. That's a solid looking string-thru-body bridge. I can't imagine there's any reason to replace it. |
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Kevin Ruddell
From:
Toledo Ohio USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2011 2:48 pm rex
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I recommend the laps built by Rex Blattenberger . I like mine a lot.
You can find him on the forum links to Manufacturers listed as we need the money guitars .
An affordable quality lap guitar that comes with a variety of options.
Georgeboards are also excellent |
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Roman Sonnleitner
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Posted 26 Apr 2011 4:29 pm
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One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet, but is, IMHO, essential for getting PSG-like tone & sustain from a LS:
Do it like the pedal steelers do, and maximize sustain by using a volume pedal; with PSG you set your target volume with the volume pedal turned down at least 50%, and then slowly open up the volume pedal while the note fades, to keep the volume at an even level.
Usin that technique, you can enhance the sustain of your lap steel a lot!
As for PSG-sounding lap steels: I'd look for something with either an aluminium or a maple body, to get those extra-bright PSG tones, a mahagony or alder LS is not going to work for that; a longer scale (24") is also going to be good for getting those tones, the common 22.5" LS scale will not sustain as long.
And lastly: building a lap steel is really easy, if you don't care for fancy looks - get a board of wood of appropriate size; drill some holes for tuners at one end, some for passing the strings through the body at the other end (and press some ferrules into those holes); use two pieces of aluminium or brass angle stock as bridge and nut; mark the frets with a sharpie (plenty of online fret calculators for getting the right distances); mount the pickup and output jack (and vol/tone pots, if you need those) - DONE! |
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George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
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William Craven
From:
South Carolina, USA
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Mark Lavelle
From:
San Mateo, CA
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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- but the thread also includes a beauty with a Lollar pickup like yours :
