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Topic: Sho Bud Restoration - Beware the Black Hole |
Bob Case
From:
Grand Junction, Colorado, USA
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Posted 1 Dec 2010 7:06 am |
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I’ve had a bad experience with my Super Pro restoration that I think Forumites need to know about. Two years ago my guitar went to John Coop to be refurbished. At the time I felt pretty good about this because of all the positive comments on the Forum. However, it seemed to fall into a black hole. At first Coop communicated with me regularly, telling me about all the things he was doing to the guitar, all about the new parts, etc.
And then the communication stopped. He didn’t answer the phone (there is no message machine) or respond to email for months at a time. Mr. Coop has had some very serious health issues lately and for a while I thought that this might be the reason things were taking so long. As it turns out, that’s probably not the case.
Finally in September of this year I was able to connect with him again and we agreed that since I would be in Chicago in October, I would drive down to Anderson, IN to pick up the guitar. He assured me that he would complete the guitar by then and that this wouldn’t be a problem.
When I got there, the guitar was nowhere close to complete. The changers were installed, but the cut outs (especially C6) need to be modified to allow full travel. Pedal cross rods were in place, but the machining is so tight that the center brackets need to be modified to allow them to rotate properly. He couldn’t even find most of the knee lever parts. One of the end plates is not buffed and one of the legs he gave me (I don’t think they are mine) doesn’t fit in the new end plate. The pickups are not wired. My feeling at this point is that much of what he was telling me about what had been completed was simply not true. I think that at the last minute he threw a few parts into the guitar in the hope that he could just get rid of me.
At that point I reclaimed the guitar and shipped it home. Coop did manage to find most of the parts and mailed them to me during the next week. Although I was extremely frustrated by the entire experience, I started to put the guitar back together only to find that significant modifications will be required to make any of this work.
So what I have now, two years and a couple of thousand dollars later (he required payment in advance), is three boxes of parts and a huge project. My thought going into this was that I would end up with a top notch, playable guitar.
My comments are not intended as a personal attack on Mr. Coop. He has had some very severe health issues recently, and with that I sympathize. However, I have also learned that I’m not the first person that this has happened to. Regardless of the issues, this is not an acceptable way to do business. Those of you considering Sho Bud restoration may want to consider other options.
Last edited by Bob Case on 4 Dec 2010 4:16 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Mark MacKenzie
From:
Franklin, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 1 Dec 2010 9:00 am
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Oh, I had almost exactly the same experience. I will post details once I compile them.
I was fooled into believing things that just were not true and I would be very happy if I saved someone from having the same experience I did.
Promising my guitar to be done in 5 months, I actually got my unfinished and ruined guitar 14 months later. I have documented it all and will post pictures and facts. |
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Danny Bates
From:
Fresno, CA. USA
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Posted 1 Dec 2010 10:45 am
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Sad stories. I had a friend that used to restore Corvettes. Same story but cars instead of guitars.
He was paid in advance and didn't deliver as promised. Parts disappeared and projects were never completed.
He now resides in prison. |
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Kevin Mincke
From:
Farmington, MN (Twin Cities-South Metro) USA
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Posted 1 Dec 2010 11:24 am
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Yep 
Maybe contact James Morehead before too many of the good ol' ~buds get messed up  |
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David Kellogg
From:
Tualatin, OR
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Posted 1 Dec 2010 7:26 pm Better yet
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| Better yet, Lynn Stafford in Damascus Oregon if you want it perfect. |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 1 Dec 2010 7:31 pm
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| James Moorhead is the guy. Has upgraded Sho-Bud new parts and does fabulous work. Lynn Stafford also. |
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Kevin Mincke
From:
Farmington, MN (Twin Cities-South Metro) USA
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Posted 1 Dec 2010 8:59 pm
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Forgot about Lynn and have admired his S~B work in the past.......nuther excellent choice  |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 1 Dec 2010 11:09 pm
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The old hot rodder's motto comes to mind: "If it don't run, chrome it!"  |
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Guido Hausmann
From:
Gütersloh, NRW Germany
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Posted 2 Dec 2010 11:53 pm
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...know what you're talking about! i'm with kevin hatton - so don't give up your super pro!!
_________________
Sho~Bud Pro II, Sho~Bud LDG, Fender '79 Vibrosonic 1x15 JBL, Fender '72 Bandmaster Reverb + Custom 2x12 Vintage Alnico Cab, Fender 75 1x15", Randall Steel Man 500, Peavey Session 500, Goodrich L120, Sho~Bud Pedal
www.facebook.com/guido.luckylola
Last edited by Guido Hausmann on 6 Dec 2010 3:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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David Kellogg
From:
Tualatin, OR
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Posted 4 Dec 2010 7:38 am Ricky Davis also
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| Lets not forget Ricky Davis. Just know that the cabinet finish is a very important part of a restoration. |
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Mark MacKenzie
From:
Franklin, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2010 8:47 am
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It sure is! The cards decal on the front of my guitar survived for 40 years until I sent it to John Coop. He put some tape across the front of it and pulled up half of the laquer with the card suit decal. He then taped a decal on top of it.
It was the first thing I saw when I went to his house in Indiana to retrieve my guitar still unfinished after 1 year. Hardly touched after one year I might add. He kept promising a professionally playing beautiful guitar worth in the neighborhood of $3000.
I was so ripped off. |
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Bob Case
From:
Grand Junction, Colorado, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2010 4:21 pm
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| I've got to say that I think the fact that you had to go to Indiana to retrieve your guitar says a lot about the depth of the black hole. Customer service at its worst. |
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Guido Hausmann
From:
Gütersloh, NRW Germany
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Posted 5 Dec 2010 12:36 pm
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...i've "only" ordered a guitar rebuilt for me. but i've got refunded after one year of waiting and making the same experience lots of you guys made before.
but there are for sure "good guys" out there who will let your bud shine again!!
wish you luck and don't give it up!
_________________
Sho~Bud Pro II, Sho~Bud LDG, Fender '79 Vibrosonic 1x15 JBL, Fender '72 Bandmaster Reverb + Custom 2x12 Vintage Alnico Cab, Fender 75 1x15", Randall Steel Man 500, Peavey Session 500, Goodrich L120, Sho~Bud Pedal
www.facebook.com/guido.luckylola |
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Mark MacKenzie
From:
Franklin, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2010 2:44 pm
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| I demanded money back and never heard from him again. |
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Guido Hausmann
From:
Gütersloh, NRW Germany
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Posted 6 Dec 2010 3:41 am
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...mark, this poor decal could make me cry! nothing can bring back the unique look of old nitro laquer!
hope you got your money back before you never heard from him again! 
_________________
Sho~Bud Pro II, Sho~Bud LDG, Fender '79 Vibrosonic 1x15 JBL, Fender '72 Bandmaster Reverb + Custom 2x12 Vintage Alnico Cab, Fender 75 1x15", Randall Steel Man 500, Peavey Session 500, Goodrich L120, Sho~Bud Pedal
www.facebook.com/guido.luckylola |
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Mark MacKenzie
From:
Franklin, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 6 Dec 2010 6:25 am
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| No, I never got a penny back... |
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Mark MacKenzie
From:
Franklin, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 6 Dec 2010 8:06 am
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| If I had not insisted, I would not have gotten a signed receipt for this money which I do have. |
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Brian Henry
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Posted 7 Dec 2010 3:31 am
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I have ordered and received white frerboards without any problems. Let's pray for John Coop's speed recovery to good health!
_________________
LOOKOUT MOUNTAIN GEORGIA |
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Mark MacKenzie
From:
Franklin, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2010 6:40 am
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My guitar mis-adventure happened years before he posted about having cancer. When I would call him about my guitar, he frequently made excuses about his leg, his teeth, and his health in general as to why he wouldn't answer my phone calls (for weeks) or work on my ShoBud.
I had Jerry Wallace rewind the pickups on my guitar before I sent it to Indiana. He did a great job and those pickups sounded fantastic. When I got the guitar back, the pickups sounded lifeless, just bad. I don't think they are the same.
There are so many aspects of what was done so badly, I could go on and on. |
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Pit Lenz
From:
Cologne, Germany
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Posted 7 Dec 2010 10:10 am
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i don't get it...
A Cooped Sho~Bud has the reputation of being the holy grail of vintage Sound combined with shiny modern functioning undercarriage. And all of a sudden all these stories pop up.
What gives?
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 7 Dec 2010 10:24 am
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I was wondering that myself..........JH in Va.
_________________
Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!! |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2010 10:36 am
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| Pit Lenz wrote: |
And all of a sudden all these stories pop up.
What gives?
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Many of us don't like to post bad reviews on the public forum. (Maybe I should have.) I do however try to warn by private email anyone who posts an inquiry. |
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Mark MacKenzie
From:
Franklin, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2010 12:24 pm
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I think there has been a reluctance to post these stories just because of that, what I now know to be false reputation. Yes, his parts were machined well and shiney and if he stayed with just supplying parts, well maybe there wouldn't be such stories now. But he let me believe he could rebuild my guitar which had worn out fingers into an incredible professional guitar and that was far from being true.
Here's another example on my guitar. To make the necks fit the old shobud end plates he put on my guitar, the necks were separated apart by 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch. That is the E9 wood neck did not overlap the C6 neck, there was a gap. I can see my feet and my pedals through the guitar. The knee levers were placed so the fulcrum was on one neck and the end on the other neck. This acted as a perfect lever in between the two necks. You can lay your finger on the gap and feel the necks being pryed apart when the knee is pushed.
Anyone can see that if the necks were attached and glued, as they were before, they would have been more stable.
The question is, why speak now? Well several people have asked me about my experience and I have learned that others have experienced the same thing. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. I loved that guitar and it is now ruined. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2010 12:44 pm
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I have had three really terrible experiences with brand name guitars.
One was an unfilled order on which I waited 12 months longer than the promised due date even though others were getting guitars.
One was a guitar that many of the cross shafts fell out of their holes after a few months (they were precision CNC machined, to the wrong length).
And one was a guitar that just didn't sound or play very well even though it was extremely well made (but not well engineered).
These brands of guitars mentioned above are highly thought of by many people but that doesn't change my experience with them. If 50 people had a great experience and 10 did not, that's not a good company to deal with. It's hard to be very scientific about this without knowing the specifics. Suffice it to say that it's a good idea to post questions about vendors and ask for private replies. Then weigh the results knowing that you got more frank answers than you would have gotten in public.
Privately I have shared these experiences with others. I choose not to share these things publicly becaue there's always a few people, very vocal people, that have indeed had excellent experiences with the same suppliers. It's very possible that a supplier could do right by half their customers and rip off the other half. One post by me could bring out 50 satisfied customers while the other 50 who got ripped off would remain silent.
Greg |
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Mark MacKenzie
From:
Franklin, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2010 12:53 pm
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To clarify my above post. When I said neck, I meant the body of the guitar, the wood that the neck is attached to. By the way, the gap changes with humidity. It is wider in winter when the wood shrinks up.
Good points, Greg. But I do think both sides of any story deserve telling. And, I held out some hope of getting some money back but that never happened. |
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