Amping Multiple Instruments Ideas??

Mack Quinney · From: Texas, USA

I need a little expert advise....

I'm in a group that has me playing steel, keyboard, dobro, and acoustic guitar. I am not interested in lugging multiple amps around so I am trying to play through a PA setup with multiple channels.

I am pre-amping the steel with a Digitech box that has pre-amp and effects. Everything else is staight into the Yamaha EMX 212 powered head out to two Peavey PR 15s. I get a fair steel sound, a flat out bad dobro sound, a low output from my Taylor T5 (yes I checked the battery in the T5) and a mediocre keyboard sound. When I play through my Behringer mix board and Peavey PV 900 amp same speakers at home it sound great.

I suspect I should pre-amp the dobro, but can't figure the T5 and keyboard not sounding good. I also seem to have to turn it full out to get any volumn.

I don't know much about this stuff so Ideas are welcome, or anything you guys have tried that seem to work I'm open too.

Thanks
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76 Emmons Push Pull, Williams 600, ShoBud Pro I, MSA Classic, Remington SteelMaster dbl 8, MSA Super Slide dbl 8, Gold Tone 6, And other instruments and equipment I can't afford.

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

Try a LR Baggs Para acoustic pre for the Dobro.
All those instruments need to get paid and have a roadie.
Dobro is tough to get a good live sound and as the volume goes up is gets increasingly imposable.
Lots of people use 2 pick up sources for Dobro.
Pick up and mic.. Pain in the rear..
Ask Bob Hoffnar, about it.
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MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes

Mack Quinney · From: Texas, USA

Thanks Ken. I have a Art Tube pre-amp I think I will try on the Dobro. If that don't help them I'll try the LL Brags. I'm thinking the rig might be under powered. The Yamaha head is a 200W head. But I'm just guessing.

I see the Madcowboys are doing well. Keep a play'en!

Mack
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76 Emmons Push Pull, Williams 600, ShoBud Pro I, MSA Classic, Remington SteelMaster dbl 8, MSA Super Slide dbl 8, Gold Tone 6, And other instruments and equipment I can't afford.

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

Use your (small?) Behringer mixer to collect all your various personal signals, and then route the "main out" signal to one channel on the P.A.

Probably do need a preamp of some kind for the Dobro. Baggs and Ultrasound are both pretty good (have used the former, own the latter). The ART Tube Preamps don't have as many separate adjustments, but will boost your signal to a more usable level.

Tom Wolverton · From: Carpinteria, CA

You don't say what you have in the dobro. Pickup? minimic? ext. mic? Also of these will vary on what you need to process the signal with. If you have a Fishman spider bridge insert pickup (the new ones), then its best to run it into the JD Aura pedal, then into your board. That's probably your best shot at good amplified dobro tone. It is tricky.
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Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Your post leaves more questions than answers. Thje most important thing that you don't tell us is the size of the venue that you are covering with your two PV speakers driven by a powered mixer of lower ouptut capacity than many steel guitar, bass and keyboard amps. At the very least you are expecting more of your rig than it can ever hope to deliver.

If this is your regular PA then you need get everything but the vocals out of it and develop separate amplification for your instruments (and all other bandmembers as well). Have you considered picking up something like an old PV KB300 that you can set up next to your steel amp to run your keys, acoustic guitar and, with the right hookup, your dobro through. This will give you greater power AND excellent control over individual and collective sound of each instrument than the Yamaha powered head can deliver.

Again, with a system of that type and size, just use it for vocals reinforcement and the vocals will sound tons better too without all that extra intermodulation going on.

Mack Quinney · From: Texas, USA

Thank you for the responses!

To answer some questions. The Dobro has a Fishman spider bridge pickup. It sounds thin and tinny. Based on what I have read the Aura pedal is basically made for this pick up. No vocals through the PA. This is just my rig to try to run four very different instruments through. We play small to medium venues, some churches. I think Dave you hit the nail on the head. "I'm expecting more out of the system than it can probably deliver.

I have a Behringer Eurorack UB1832 and a Peavey PV 900 power amp at home. (It stays at home in a rather large rack system, that’s why I'm not taking it out.) Everything seems to sound great at home through this, but I'm only competing with a CD player which I have control of the volume.

So.. I'm thinking if it sounds good at home, why not on the road. Maybe a similar mixer and PV 1500. That would give me about 300W per side with the 8 ohm speakers.... Yes/No Thoughs. I think I would need to pre-amp the Dobro with anything.

Thank you again for the responses.
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76 Emmons Push Pull, Williams 600, ShoBud Pro I, MSA Classic, Remington SteelMaster dbl 8, MSA Super Slide dbl 8, Gold Tone 6, And other instruments and equipment I can't afford.

Mack Quinney · From: Texas, USA

Update! Again thanks for the responses. I purchased a QSC GX5 power amp to drive the Peavey speakers. Much much better. Got the volumn I needed and a cleaner sound. The amp puts out about 500W per channel at 8ohms. So power was the big problem. Now for the Dobro, the Art tube amp helped, but still didn't put out enough and didn't give me much control. I guess the Aura pedal is next. Does anyone know if the Jerry Douglas pedal is a true pre-amp, or just models the microphones. I need a signal boost, and the Art pre-amp didn't have it.

Thanks

Mack
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76 Emmons Push Pull, Williams 600, ShoBud Pro I, MSA Classic, Remington SteelMaster dbl 8, MSA Super Slide dbl 8, Gold Tone 6, And other instruments and equipment I can't afford.

Gary Richardi · From: SoCal, USA

re. the T5's sound. I played a T5 for a few gigs and it's a difficult guitar to figure. You really have to use a preamp to get decent tone out of it.

David Nugent · From: Gum Spring, Va.

I use a 'Schatten'(sp?, may be Shatten)resophonic pickup and the tone is quite good even without using a preamp. This pickup looks like a large washer and mounts to the base of the cone, fairly easy to install and all hardware is included.

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

See if you can find an Audio Arts 4100 Four Band Parametric EQ. Smoother sounding than the Furman PQ3, which would also work, the AA 4100 has both balanced line and 1'4" instrument inputs, a 1/4" line level output, and an overall master volume control. Expect to pay between $150 and $250 on eBay or such...

http://bibbteck.com/Products/233-audioarts-engineering-model-4100-parametric-equalizer.aspx

Peter Harris · From: South Australia, Australia

L R Baggs 'Venue' DI

...see if you can get to try one..... Smile

Leo Melanson · From: Massachusetts, USA

I am a guitar player who joined a working country band last year and was asked to play some other instruments: Fiddle, Steel, Guitar, Keyboards and play some Loops ... I have been struggling with the balance between portability (lugging many amps and effects) and having good tone and monitoring for each instrument.

For several months I played with various setups and now have settled into this:

Fiddles into Line6 G20 wireless (these things are rock-solid and highly recommended) into a Fishman Aura Modeling pedal loaded with Fiddle Presets. You way want to check this out for the Dobro patches. They even have a Jerry Douglas sig. model. These pedals breathe acoustic life into electrified signal.

For Electric Guitar and keyboard sounds I am playing through the new Roland GR55 ... amazing instrument! I can have detuned guitars, baritones, 12 strings, and thousands of other synth instruments .. all played from my guitar in seconds. Check this gadget out!

Steel goes through a few pedals, vol, tuner, etc.

Finally I use the Digitech JamMan for loops in our performances.

All 5 instruments then go into a small powered Behringer mixer and into (2) Yamaha 12: PA speakers.
This is plenty loud enough for stage volume, speakers are small enough to lug, can go on the floor or on poles or be stacked. I do get some snide remarks from the others about my mini-me PA system, but I love the control, the built in effects and steel sounds pretty good in stereo.

I feed these to the PA with either one signal or independent signals (via inserts) .. depending on the needs and open channels of the house PA and size of venue, etc. Our PA (StudioLive) also sends me back a wireless monitor Mix for in-ear monitoring.

It isn't the most portable system in the world, but it is a good balance between tone and portability. You could substitute a guitar or steel amp in place of the speakers. Hope this helps!
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Boston area country musician
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