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Topic: Fender vs Clinesmith |
Andre Haqvinsson
From:
Stockholm Sweden
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Posted 28 Mar 2011 12:54 am |
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Heres a clip just fooling around with A6 tuning on my 1953 Fender S8
i really thinking of ordering a Clinesmith D-8 from Todd
with or without pedals, Big thanks for all pics, advices and replies on my Clinesmith question last week, that was great  anyone know anything about his pedals? i know his steels without pedals are the best and absolutely awesome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbibKOnB-WE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Clinesmith D-10 1953 Fender S8, 1947 Gibson LG-2
http://www.andrehakwinsson.com |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 28 Mar 2011 5:16 am
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I have a Fender T8 Custom, a Clinesmith lap steel and Clinesmith D8 console here and they all sound different. The Clinesmiths are both pretty close, but the console with aluminum necks really has a snap to it in a way that the lap steel doesn't, but the lap steel has its own unique sound. If you were considering ordering a console, I'd highly recommend the aluminum necks rather than wood. The Fender is a much different sound, as you know. Also, another factor is that the scale lengths are different. The Fender is short scale (22 1/2") and the Clinesmith has a 24 1/2" scale.
Todd just built himself a T8 console with pedals, but he can also leave the pedals off if he wants to. Like I said, I don't have any experience with his pedals, but I have no doubt that they are killer. The next Clinesmith I order may have a few pedals on it.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Rick Winfield
From:
Pickin' beneath the Palmettos
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Posted 28 Mar 2011 7:30 am Clinesmith
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Is it true that they use the "cable system", instesd of "pull rods?
Rick |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 28 Mar 2011 7:37 am
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Yes, it is a cable system.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2011 9:49 am
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the only fear i would have with the pedals is
1. you'd better be dang sure of your setup as its pretty much set
2. the pickups on these are SO microphonic that any additional body noise would cause even more problems. these pickups catch EVERYTHING going on.
i had heard thru the grapevine that Bobbe Seymour was setting up the pedals on the Clinesmiths, which is fine - he knows the bigsby mech inside and out - no mortal could ever figure out that system of pulleys and cables.
i had thought about a pedal Clinesmith, but really, i have 2 great pedal steels and there isnt any sense in going that route with the superiority of modern (ie post-60's) mechanics...you know manual drum brakes and steering is fine, but i dont want a car with them as my daily driver.
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'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II
Last edited by Jerome Hawkes on 28 Mar 2011 9:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Steve Waltz
From:
USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2011 9:50 am
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Cables
I'll try to make a quick recording of it and one of another guitar and see what you think. D-10's might sound different than D-8's and mine is a wood neck.
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 28 Mar 2011 10:50 am
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I went with a Clinesmith D10 console steel with metal necks. I had a couple Richenbacher pandas and a D8 swamp ash (58 ) Stringmaster. I could not get myself to play them any more after I got a Clinesmith. I find the Clinesmith to be a vastly superior instrument. I play pedal steel also but decided not to mess with pedals or wooden necks on my console. It sounds so good I didn't want to change anything.
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Bob |
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Todd Clinesmith
From:
Lone Rock Free State Oregon
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Posted 28 Mar 2011 6:42 pm
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Hi,
I usually just let the Clinesmith threads go by customers reviews. I don't like to come off like a salesmen , but I figure my knowledge of the pedals and mechanics should be addressed .The pedal mechs on my guitars as stated are a spring loaded cable system in the fashion of P.A.B.'s work.
To avoid any rumors, I do the pedals set ups on my guitars. I do not send them to Bobbe Seymour to set up. I did build one for Bobbe, and another in the works for him now. He does the set ups on his personal Clinesmiths, since he knows these instruments so well.
Also It is good to have your copedant well figured out before the initial pedal set up, but the set up can be changed with not too much work . Really the cable system is pretty simple once the basic understanding of the system is understood. PAB was a genius in his develoments but, all of his achivements were logical.
They are single raise single lower. 1/2 tone or whole tone changes. On Steve Waltz we did get a 1 1/2 step raise on one string.
I think the best set ups for these instruments are based around the basic 3 pedals on a 6th tuning and the Bud Isaacs tuning. Maybe other chords close to your tuning... ex A6 to B11 or C#m. Or E13 to C#m , diminished chords, 7th ,9ths ect. Paul B. originaly built these pedal guitars as "tone changers'. To change chords on. Basically to get a few tunings on one neck. IMO my pedal guitars are best suited for this.
As many know Bud Isaacs was the first ( atleast on a commercial level) to incorporate the moving tones on his E9 tuning played on his Bigsby. From that moment on the evolution of the modern E9 began to florish. Buddy Emmons and others began to develop styles and ideas, and then worked on instruments to achieve these ideas. Mechanically these modern instruments and the creation of the Nashville sound left the Bigsbys in the 50's. Also the Western Swing and Honky Tonk era was becoming part of the past. This is where these instruments really shine. I think they have a great tone for Hawaiian,Swing and early Country music too. Not to limit the possibilities of the player or the instrument, because that is endless. But this era of music and American craftsmanship were at it's peak in the late 40's and 50's, and PAB was there listening to the musicians ideas and creating the most beautiful looking and sounding instruments made. I feel fortunate to make these instruments available.
As Mike was saying, I recently built myself a T-8 with 6 pedals and I have a D-8 with 6 pedals. But I leave the pedals at home quite a bit. I'll post some photos of the T-8 and a recent D-8.
Todd |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 28 Mar 2011 11:55 pm
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Jerome,
| Quote: |
| 2. the pickups on these are SO microphonic that any additional body noise would cause even more problems. these pickups catch EVERYTHING going on. |
I have used both my Clinesmith lap steels ( 2 different ones) and console steels (3 different ones) in extremely demanding professional situations and have never had any issues with microphonic pickups. I make pickups so I do have some experience in this matter. The pickups that are used in the Clinesmith suit the guitars perfectly in my opinion and are works of art in themselves.
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Bob |
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Jussi Huhtakangas
From:
Helsinki, Finland
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Posted 29 Mar 2011 12:14 am
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| Andre, since I know where you're coming from and that you're not loooking for a guitar for modern E9 pedal mashing, my suggestion is a D8 with a non pedal neck and the other with the original Isaacs E9, except with split pedals. That will give you a very versatile guitar which will be more than suitable for what you do. You'd have the classic 50's E9 sounds with all the swing style sounds too. You would actually have a possibility for three different tunings; say put an E13 of your choice on the non pedal and on the pedal neck there's open E9 and pedals down it's your familiar A6. |
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2011 5:18 am
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i hope my post didnt sound critical of the Clinesmith - i have one i LOVE, and i WILL be ordering a console - my hangup is the same as yours Andre - i cant make up my mind if i want to go D-8 with pedals or T-8-8-10 non pedal. soon as i get some projects finished and free up some $$$, i'll be on the list.
i'm glad some of the heavy Clinesmith players joined in about it, as honestly, that has been one of the reasons i havent placed an order yet.... i fear i'll have my dream guitar that i cant go out and gig/record with.
let me start by saying i've only been playing non-pedal for a year, so i have a lot to do in cleaning up my handling / bar noise - (its a different animal playing on TOP of the guitar instead of under it) - but i dont seem to have the same issues with my '54 Fender Dual....so my newbie conclusion was its something to do with the pickup catching every little movement, plus, the Clinesmith is on my lap and the Fender on legs so there is the possibility of more "handling noise" a console wont have.
i've found that i dont have an issue when i play thru a small low watt Princeton tube amp, but at gig levels thru my stage amp (old Evans FET) i got a lot of unwanted handling noise, thus the "microphonic" statement - i even had the metal snap buttons on the sleeve of my HowdyDoody stage shirt touching the pickup cover coming thru loud and clear (not the guitars fault obviously).
i found out thru trials that running the S-8 thru a volume pedal helped a lot - i was originally running it straight to the amp so i was at the mercy of many things.
---
sorry for the reference to BS doing the tone changers - shows you need to take everything heard second hand with caution.
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 29 Mar 2011 5:27 am
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Jerome, have you tried removing the pickup cover? I removed mine because I like the way it feels to have constant contact with the strings. I don't have any problems with excess noise. Give it a try.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Andre Haqvinsson
From:
Stockholm Sweden
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Posted 29 Mar 2011 9:08 am
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Todd
thanks for the information, it sounds very interesting, were thankful that guys like you
keep the magic alive, Ive been listening around alot and i must say that
your Clinesmiths sound amazing, ill come back to you asap about
it
// Andre
| Todd Clinesmith wrote: |
Hi,
I usually just let the Clinesmith threads go by customers reviews. I don't like to come off like a salesmen , but I figure my knowledge of the pedals and mechanics should be addressed .The pedal mechs on my guitars as stated are a spring loaded cable system in the fashion of P.A.B.'s work.
To avoid any rumors, I do the pedals set ups on my guitars. I do not send them to Bobbe Seymour to set up. I did build one for Bobbe, and another in the works for him now. He does the set ups on his personal Clinesmiths, since he knows these instruments so well.
Also It is good to have your copedant well figured out before the initial pedal set up, but the set up can be changed with not too much work . Really the cable system is pretty simple once the basic understanding of the system is understood. PAB was a genius in his develoments but, all of his achivements were logical.
They are single raise single lower. 1/2 tone or whole tone changes. On Steve Waltz we did get a 1 1/2 step raise on one string.
I think the best set ups for these instruments are based around the basic 3 pedals on a 6th tuning and the Bud Isaacs tuning. Maybe other chords close to your tuning... ex A6 to B11 or C#m. Or E13 to C#m , diminished chords, 7th ,9ths ect. Paul B. originaly built these pedal guitars as "tone changers'. To change chords on. Basically to get a few tunings on one neck. IMO my pedal guitars are best suited for this.
As many know Bud Isaacs was the first ( atleast on a commercial level) to incorporate the moving tones on his E9 tuning played on his Bigsby. From that moment on the evolution of the modern E9 began to florish. Buddy Emmons and others began to develop styles and ideas, and then worked on instruments to achieve these ideas. Mechanically these modern instruments and the creation of the Nashville sound left the Bigsbys in the 50's. Also the Western Swing and Honky Tonk era was becoming part of the past. This is where these instruments really shine. I think they have a great tone for Hawaiian,Swing and early Country music too. Not to limit the possibilities of the player or the instrument, because that is endless. But this era of music and American craftsmanship were at it's peak in the late 40's and 50's, and PAB was there listening to the musicians ideas and creating the most beautiful looking and sounding instruments made. I feel fortunate to make these instruments available.
As Mike was saying, I recently built myself a T-8 with 6 pedals and I have a D-8 with 6 pedals. But I leave the pedals at home quite a bit. I'll post some photos of the T-8 and a recent D-8.
Todd |
_________________
Clinesmith D-10 1953 Fender S8, 1947 Gibson LG-2
http://www.andrehakwinsson.com |
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Andre Haqvinsson
From:
Stockholm Sweden
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Posted 29 Mar 2011 9:19 am
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Jussi
thanks for the advice, yep we did some gigs together some 20 years
ago, still remember that nice jamsession we had in Enviken around 1990-91,
great times,
Ive only been playing Steel for about 3 years
so its all pretty new, its such a challenge just to play and to get à nice
tone on this instrument so i didnt have time to think so much about the right instrument until now, ive heard Todds steels and they are just super,
ill think about the Bud Isaacs setup, that sure is a nice idea, How many pedals did Vance use on his Bigsby, i got the Billy Jack Wills transcriptions and the Brisbane Bop, killer stuff !! Cheers
Andre
| Jussi Huhtakangas wrote: |
| Andre, since I know where you're coming from and that you're not loooking for a guitar for modern E9 pedal mashing, my suggestion is a D8 with a non pedal neck and the other with the original Isaacs E9, except with split pedals. That will give you a very versatile guitar which will be more than suitable for what you do. You'd have the classic 50's E9 sounds with all the swing style sounds too. You would actually have a possibility for three different tunings; say put an E13 of your choice on the non pedal and on the pedal neck there's open E9 and pedals down it's your familiar A6. |
_________________
Clinesmith D-10 1953 Fender S8, 1947 Gibson LG-2
http://www.andrehakwinsson.com |
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Mark Roeder
From:
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2011 10:14 am
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I guess I'll chime in....I like the transparent sound I get from the Clinesmith PUs, they bring out the "touch" of the player. If that is part of a pick up being microphonic then I'd say it's a plus.
As for wanting pedals I had wondered what purpose you want them for, chord building? Since I don't play pedals I can't advise but Bob Hoffnar plays both non and pedal so his opinion on the pedals would be a good one.
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www.deluxe34.com lap steel stands, Clinesmith, Gibson Console Grande, Northwesterns, The Best Westerns
https://www.facebook.com/TheBestWesterns |
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Jussi Huhtakangas
From:
Helsinki, Finland
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Posted 29 Mar 2011 10:49 pm
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Andre, Vance had two pedals on his Bigsby. While Isaacs raised B to C#, Vance had it opposite. But I believe what you hear on the transcriptions with BJW is pre pedals.
It is true that those PU's pick up ( no pun intended )pedal noise. You can diminish that a bit by adding a thin piece of felt on the neck tail under the changer fingers. That's what I have on my Bigsby. Not sure if it was done by PA himself or the owner, but it seems to work ok. |
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