| Author |
Topic: Compression |
Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
|
Posted 8 Mar 2011 9:38 am |
|
Anybody else using a compressor on their steel??
_________________
A.K.A Chappy. |
|
|
 |
Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
|
Posted 8 Mar 2011 9:55 am
|
|
I use a Goodrich Model 120 under my right foot.  |
|
|
|
Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
|
Posted 8 Mar 2011 10:04 am
|
|
Used to use an MXR compressor back in the 70"s to early '80's. But I used it as an effect, and not for leveling out the sound levels. I would set it to really "squeeze" the note to sound kind of like what the Tele players were getting (ala Roy Nichols). I turned it on only for that effect.
I don't really see a use for it in it's usual role. You use the volume pedal to vary the levels as you play and a compressor could potentially negate that.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
|
|
|
Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
|
|
|
|
Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
|
Posted 8 Mar 2011 10:54 am
|
|
Sorry gents, i don't mean a compressor to replace a volume pedal, nobody rides the pedal up and down with every pick of a string, using it as a 'limiter' to smooth out the signal waveform, same as guitar with a volume pedal.
_________________
A.K.A Chappy. |
|
|
|
Harry Dove
From:
Michigan, USA
|
Posted 8 Mar 2011 6:10 pm
|
|
I've been looking at the Keeley Compressor, think I might give that a try. I think Gary Morse uses one or used to anyway. I hear it really smooths out the output.
 |
|
|
|
Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
|
Posted 9 Mar 2011 2:08 am
|
|
I use my "enhancer/limiter" to let my steel take over for all the usual effects - like reverb, echo, etc. Haven't really used any added effects since putting the LMB-3 as first stage, before VP, since my main PSGs have more than enough "effect" on their own in the form of body-tone when "released" through the LMB-3.
Typically: start with a rich chord and then quickly pick/mute a lick over all but the base-note string of the initial chord, for finally letting the base-note rise from the initial chord as from nowhere, before continuing. Easy to do with just the VP, but a lot easier (for me at least) and sounding much more natural and convincing with an LMB-3 as first stage.
The LMB-3 unit increases modulation caused by beating tones btw - many compressors/limiters do that because they sense sub-harmonics, which makes it imperative to achieve 100% perfect "just intonation" for every single chord.
I like that kind of "precision-enforcement" - I can't get away with anything in my playing, but it also means any body-drop detuning a PSG may have risks getting amplified - which is reason enough for me to prefer "rock-steady" PSGs  |
|
|
|
Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
|
Posted 9 Mar 2011 10:12 am
|
|
| I've been using an Alesis 3630 for several years,between my guitar and the front of the amp.On the rare occasions when I use an amp that doesn't have a "volume pedal patch",I put the VP between the 3630 and the front of the amp. |
|
|
|
Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
|
Posted 9 Mar 2011 11:16 am
|
|
| Quote: |
| nobody rides the pedal up and down with every pick of a string |
That's news to me but OK, if you say so...
Last edited by Dave Grafe on 10 Mar 2011 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Ron Anderson
From:
Keystone Colorado, USA
|
Posted 9 Mar 2011 11:37 am
|
|
| Dyna Comp here. |
|
|
|
Jeff Pickering
From:
Wichita, Kansas
|
Posted 10 Mar 2011 11:24 am
|
|
| I use a Boss GX700 effects unit and in my main patch I use a little compression. |
|
|
|
John Gould
From:
Houston, TX Now in Cleveland TX
|
Posted 11 Mar 2011 10:28 am Compress or not compress
|
|
I find a compressor very handy in low volume situations if pickups on the steel are not balanced. It does help with sustain issues in a low volume situation my favorite is the older DBX 160 series units used in the loop. These units use a soft knee or over easy compression.
_________________
A couple of guitars
Fender GTX 100 Fender Mustang III Fender Blues Jr. Boss Katana MKII 50
Justice Pro Lite and Sho Bud Pro II |
|
|
|
Quentin Hickey
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
|
|
|
|
Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
|
Posted 12 Mar 2011 11:21 am
|
|
Honestly, and I am not trying to cut anyone down, but if you need a compressor to "smooth out" your sound, I think you need to spend more time perfecting your picking and volume pedal techniques.
And your guitar should sustain just as well at low volumes.
EDTITED to expand on my sustain at low volume comment.
While it is true that you can lengthen the time you actually hear the sustain from your amp, the guitar still has the same amount of sustain. If at low volumes, you are running out of audible sustain, try turning your amp up for more headroom, and play with your volume pedal in the first half of the pedal travel. That way you can press down on the volume pedal to make the sustain audible longer.
Just my (probably not welcomed) opinion.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.
Last edited by Richard Sinkler on 12 Mar 2011 4:28 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
|
|
Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
|
Posted 12 Mar 2011 2:59 pm
|
|
Thank you, Richard, (alsos Lee and Quentin) for stating what one might think should be quite obvious here, which is that using a compresor to manage attack and dynamics not only kills your sound but prevents one from ever learning to play properly without one.
Can you say "crutch?" I knew you could...
p.s. Just for the record, as previously alluded to in perhaps overly cryptic fashion, if "nobody rides the pedal up and down with every pick of a string" then I guess I have been "nobody" for quite a few years, a label that I now proudly share with some mighty illustrious company... |
|
|
|
Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
|
Posted 12 Mar 2011 5:08 pm
|
|
Only one way to say this: I agree with Dave and Richard (and the others in the "no compressor" camp). No regular compressor has ever worked for me either ... they are all more or less detrimental to natural tone.
But, just like with all other units people often use to enhance the tone of their PSGs, like EQ, reverb, delay, etc, getting the right unit set right may reveal and enhance a PSG's inherent tone-qualities.
I wanted to reveal a little more of a certain tone-quality my old Dekley has ... in fact all my PSGs have some of that tone-quality (when I play them), not just as much as my Dekleys ... and none of the "usual" effect-units did anything but cover it up no matter the setting. Thus, I used to play with only a VP ... and after 25 years of playing I know how to use a VP.
Remembering how a certain "sustainer" worked for my guitars (40 years ago) - revealing inherent tone while not compressing anything, I searched for one of today's units with similar characteristics.
Finally found the "enhancer/limiter" - which is a "compressor" but certainly not a regular one, which reveals and enhances my PSGs tone the way I want and does not interfere with or "replace" the VP.
Having more than one way - and the combined ways - to achieve the same thing - getting more inherent tone out through those speakers, certainly does not qualify for "using crutches". If it did, then every single effect used in the sound-chain by any PSG player on earth, qualifies for the term "using crutches".
I personally don't like "added effects" for PSG, but I won't deny that some actually may have a positive effect when set and used right for the tune/situation. |
|
|
|
Jonathan Cullifer
From:
Gallatin, TN
|
Posted 12 Mar 2011 6:46 pm
|
|
| Whether desired or not, I heavily use the limiter in the NV112 a lot. It my tube rig, the tubes and speaker offer enough natural compression that no more is necessary. |
|
|
|
John Gould
From:
Houston, TX Now in Cleveland TX
|
Posted 13 Mar 2011 5:22 pm Ouch
|
|
Well I must say I didn't expect this much negative feedback over using a compressor. If you get a quality piece of gear it should not effect your tone. I have not noticed any difference in tone having in the loop or not having it there at all. If using any effect is a crutch I would guess all of us are guilty to some degree of having and using some sort of crutch. I don't use one all the time I have just found it handy in a low volume situation so I don't have to change any of my picking or volume pedal technique. I have two what I would call pro steels and neither one of them have perfectly balanced pickups where all the strings are the same volume. I don't advocate using a compressor all the time when playing but I think there are occasions when it is a handy thing. If all of us used the same gear and got the same sound out of it, the world would be a boring place.
_________________
A couple of guitars
Fender GTX 100 Fender Mustang III Fender Blues Jr. Boss Katana MKII 50
Justice Pro Lite and Sho Bud Pro II |
|
|
|
basilh
From:
United Kingdom
|
Posted 13 Mar 2011 7:38 pm Re: Ouch
|
|
| John Gould wrote: |
| If using any effect is a crutch I would guess all of us are guilty to some degree of having and using some sort of crutch. |
Notwithstanding that, the balancing out of the string volume differential is achieved with the right hand.. or at least SHOULD be..
As for compressors in general, I can honestly say I've yet to meet a player who understands the functions sufficiently well to utilise compression effectively. And for those who say they DON'T use one, If they use a Profex, then it's 'odds on' that they DO use compression.
Last edited by basilh on 14 Mar 2011 2:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
|
Posted 13 Mar 2011 10:56 pm
|
|
My dear brethren and sistern, I did not use the word "crutch" to slam anyone else at all but specifically in reference to my own experience using a compressor in my PSG signal chain. Back in the days when I was packing around a boatload of rack gear to play through I was using an Audio Arts model 1200, one of the very finest studio compressors available, and being very well acquainted with the theory and practice of dynamics processing from many years as a studio and live music engineer I was able to minimize any negative artifacts, but like it or not, it was a crutch, a way to compensate for my own ability to control my right hand and foot and play with consistent attack and volume. I stopped using it because I had to admit to myself that as long as I was hiding my slop from others I was also hiding it from myself and thus was never going to develop proper technique until I unplugged it. It's like training wheels on a bike, as long as they are there one never really learns to ride without them.
If you play in front of other people and that is the only way to sound acceptable FOR NOW then you must do what you must do, but if you never unplug the thing you will NEVER learn to do what all of the best players have been doing for decades, so I stand by my choice of words and actions with no prejudice or malice intended towards anyone.
This is not to say that compression does not have its place in the studio or live mix or that it does not offer some useful effects for certain situations, but to use dynamics processing as a substitute for developing adequate right hand and foot technique is self-defeating for anyone serious about mastering the instrument.
Peace and Out... |
|
|
|
Gerry Simon
From:
Ohio, USA
|
Posted 14 Mar 2011 12:53 am
|
|
| I use compression frequently. I like the fatter sound it gives me when I'm playing some Little Feat or Bonnie Raitt always with a little or a lot of distortion. If you only play traditional country, you probably won't have any use for it but I use any tone or envelope modifiers I can to create or copy the sound I'm looking for. I wasn't playing when the slide became electric but I wonder if there was a close minded resistance to the volume pedal? Anyone remember? |
|
|
|
Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
|
Posted 14 Mar 2011 3:11 am Re: Ouch
|
|
| basilh wrote: |
| As for compressors in general, I can honestly say I've yet to meet a player who understands the functions sufficiently well to utilise compression effectively. |
I believe you. That is my experience also.
| basilh wrote: |
| And for those who say they DON'T use one, If they use a Profex, then it's 'odds on' that they DO use compression. |
...not to mention tube amps and SS amps with some form of limiters, although they are more like curve-shaping headroom clippers than compressors, and not very adjustable.
Such "units" can be very "playable extensions", especially if one knows how they work. In most cases "the lesser the better" is true though, IMO. |
|
|
|
Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
|
Posted 14 Mar 2011 6:16 am
|
|
The comparison to the limiters/compressors that amps use to stop clipping is not a good comparison in my view. We do not choose to use those, the amp chooses when to use it. They are there to prevent damage to amp and speakers, not to "even out" the sound, enhance tone, etc...
I also stand by my remarks in regards to technique vs a compressor.
Compressors used for effect is a different story, as I explained what I used to use one for in my first post above. To use one to bring up notes picked too lightly or bring down ones picked too hard is counter productive to learning proper picking and volume pedal techniques. It removes much of the dynamics the PSG is famous for. And that remark has nothing to do with whether you play country, or any other genre of music. Dynamics are used on every practically every instrument in every style of music.
An eHow article on the difference between compressors and limiters. Just for info.
| Quote: |
Subtle differences exist between compressors and limiters, which are most commonly used in recording studios for volume control. While a compressor compresses the sound, a limiter is also aptly named as it limits the overall volume of an instrument or track.
Features
Compressors are used to compress the sound by a user-set ratio above a certain threshold. You can set the amount of compression as well as the overall gain reduction. Limiters, on the other hand, eliminate all the sound above a particular threshold rather than compressing the sound.
Uses
Compressors are well-suited to even out the sound of a certain instrument and are often used on bass guitars, kick drums and snares for a more even sound. Limiters are often used for audio control of the overall mix of a song rather than on individual instruments and can be helpful with other tasks where a compressor is not suitable.
Considerations
In some cases, a compressor will add a sucking sound when used on an instrument that is simply not desired. You can eliminate this sound by using a limiter in place of a compressor as it will chop off all the sound rather than squash it through compression. The differences between compressors and limiters are slight, but noticeable. |
Gerry brought up a good example of using a compressor for something other than evening out the notes. If it gives him the tone he is looking for without affecting the levels of the picked notes, then that is a good example of using it as an effect.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
|
|
|
Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
|
Posted 14 Mar 2011 12:25 pm
|
|
Thanks fellows!
_________________
A.K.A Chappy. |
|
|
|
John Gould
From:
Houston, TX Now in Cleveland TX
|
Posted 14 Mar 2011 7:40 pm One more time
|
|
Well I just want to make one more comment on the use of a compressor. If you can actually hear the compressor clamping down on the notes your using it wrong.In my case of using a compressor on my steel rig
is that no player out there would probably think I was even using one if I didn't tell them. Like I said in my earlier post nothing should stand of the way having good right hand skills and also volume pedal skills as well. When I practice I don't use any effects no reverb no delay just raw amp. That way if I can get really smooth transitions , I'll sound even better with the sweetness that comes from those effects. It also has been helpful with some of the studio work I do, not being dependent on hearing my playing with effects on it.
_________________
A couple of guitars
Fender GTX 100 Fender Mustang III Fender Blues Jr. Boss Katana MKII 50
Justice Pro Lite and Sho Bud Pro II |
|
|
|
