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Topic: Pedal steel to dobro/reso advice |
Randy Brown
From:
Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 1:49 pm |
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I've played PSG for a few years now. I don't claim to be very good, but I get by ok. Played guitar for many many years as well. I just ordered my first reso (squareneck) and I'm looking for advice for getting started. I'm looking to do country/alt-country styles at this point.
I know I need to get a different tone bar. I have a couple of BJS bars (10 string and 12 string) I use with my PSG. What is the most common tone bar to use with the reso? Recommended sizes?
Is there anything else I'll need to buy, right off?
Also which tuning is recommended? I play U-12 currently.
(I'm posting this in the Pedal section because I'm looking for advice from other pedal steelers who also play dobro/reso. If it is more appropriate in Non-Pedal section, please let me know) |
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Robert Murphy
From:
West Virginia
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 2:05 pm
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| I played reso first but got into pedal steel because of the more versitile tuning. I use a SP2 and tune the guitar lo to high AC#EGBD. I get A major, C#dim, E minor, G major and A dom 7 plus other 4 note chords with no slants. Good luck. |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 2:12 pm
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| The most common tuning for Country and Bluegrass is open "G"(DBGDBG). Blues players sometimes use open "D" or "E"...For a bar, I prefer the Shubb Pearse SP2. They feature a round edge on one end much like a steel bar, and a blunt edge on the other which works well for pull offs. Others such as the Dunlop "Lap Dawg" or the Sheerhorn (much pricier)work well also. A capo would be helpful if you plan on playing with a group. Elderly Instruments carries a complete line of accessories for resophonic guitars. |
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 2:41 pm
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I recently got a Beard Goldtone square neck to keep my mid-70's OMI-Dobro company after getting all fired up to work on my Reso playing after I downloaded the most recent Jerry Douglass C/D from amazon. I have been using an old "Chase" bar (3" x3/4" with a slight taper, 3.4oz) for Dobro for years and thought I "needed" to get a real Dobro bar.
I ordered a Shubb SP2 after watching a few of Troy Brenningmyer's videos on the internet and it arrived a few days ago. I'm giving it a try, but after 35+ years of using a normal bar on my steel guitars, it is not feeling very user-friendly to me. I'm thinking about trying a Dunlop #919 that has a bit more weight and does not have the slight taper of the Chase bar. There is a thread in the Non-Pedal section about "round bars" that has some good photo's of several different bars that might help you decide on what you want to try.
As for tuning, I'm a GBDGBD guy as I also play some banjo and it just made sence to me as I already knew the notes of that tuning when I started with the Dobro.
JE:-)> |
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Randy Brown
From:
Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 2:50 pm
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Thanks for the replies. That gives me some good ideas of what to look for. I'll go browse around at the music store and hopefully find a bar that works for me, at least to get moving with it initially. Probably start with open G tuning, it seems to be most common.
The capo is a good idea, I wouldn't have thought of that coming from the PSG. But I can see how it would be useful for dobro style, since there are alot of open strings and pull-offs involved. Thanks! |
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John Owen
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 2:55 pm
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| David Nugent wrote: |
| The most common tuning for Country and Bluegrass is open "G"(DBGDBG). Blues players sometimes use open "D" or "E"...For a bar, I prefer the Shubb Pearse SP2. They feature a round edge on one end much like a steel bar, and a blunt edge on the other which works well for pull offs. Others such as the Dunlop "Lap Dawg" or the Sheerhorn (much pricier)work well also. A capo would be helpful if you plan on playing with a group. Elderly Instruments carries a complete line of accessories for resophonic guitars. |
I think Mr Nugent confused his "D's" with his "G's". All the dobro players I know (including me) refer to open G as: GBDGBD |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 4:50 pm
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As john owen said... and a Stevens bar.. Gauges 13-56
_________________
A.K.A Chappy. |
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Michael Hardee
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 6:55 pm
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| Hammer ons and pull offs are used a lot when playing dobro and you need a steel with a sharp front edge for clean pull offs. I think I have used every dobro bar made and keep coming back to the Shubb GS. Very comfortable to hold with the wood handle and priced right. Jimmy Heffernan has some good instructional DVD's. |
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Emmett Roch
From:
Texas Hill Country
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 8:58 pm
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I settled on the Shubb-Pearse years ago. I hacksaw about 1/4" off the back end and smooth the edges with a file so it will fit my hand better and give me more control for pull-offs & such.
I know a guy who uses a huge 1-1/4" bar for both PSG and dobro, and he does great on both of them. Try them all & see what works best for you.
_________________
On Earth, as it is in Texas |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 9:33 pm
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I have a Goldtone which is tuned DBGDBG high to low most of the time.
Its a round neck and I put a raised nut on it.
I use a Dunlop 919 tonebar.
Its 4.5 oz. and 3/4" X 2-3/4"
Id like to try a Shubb now after reading these posts.
Clete |
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Ryan Barwin
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 1:01 am
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I use a Brozo-phonic bullet bar and I tune to G6th (BDEGBD), E6th (BC#EG#BE), or E7th (BDEG#BE). But I play it like a steel, not a dobro.
_________________
www.pedalsteel.ca |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 1:11 am
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Pick it HARD!!! It needs to be driven hard to get a good dobro tone.
_________________
To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 4:03 am
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| In response to a reply to my previous post: I was instructed when learning six string guitar to count the high "E" string as string one, therefore I naturally use the same method when describing the tuning for a resophonic. My apologies for any confusion. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 4:58 am
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| Tom Wolverton wrote: |
| Pick it HARD!!! It needs to be driven hard to get a good dobro tone. |
Amen 
It's not an electric instrument; you need to play it hard. Usually the problem is in reverse; someone trains on an acoustic instrument and then moves to an electric instrument, and they have to learn to play softly and not so many notes. Whereas individual notes and a few triads here and there will do on a pedal steel, because you can vary the sustain with the volume pedal, on any acoustic instrument you have to play it more like a folk guitar, with plenty of chords. All of those techniques, such as rolling the base with the thumb, while picking the melody with the first three fingers, work on the Dobro, but not on pedal steel.
You need to learn Clawhammer picking.
You didn't mention how many strings you have on your acoustic instrument. If you have seven or more you can use a variation of C6 tuning. The main difference between C6 and G major (the standard bluegrass tuning) is the additional string, not the pitch. What differentiates the left-hand action is the intervals between the strings rather than their pitch. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 5:27 am
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Also get a Beard Capo... Don't always think in terms of an open tuning...meaning 1 at 0 fret, 4 at 5th and 5 at the 7th fret...
Think of the open as the 4th...
with the root being on the 7th ( D) or the capo position as the 4th, wherever it may be...
just trying to help !
t
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Randy Brown
From:
Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 5:42 am
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I found the Beard capo online - looks like it doesn't touch the neck, while others like the Shubb capo clamp on to the neck. Is one recommended over the other for tone purposes?
Alan, it is a 6 string Gold Tone PBS (bought here on the forum).
Also Tony thanks for your input about chord positions.
I'm sure once I get it and mess around with it I'll figure things out more quickly... I just want to make sure I get the right accessories to get started, and also not to learn too many bad habits up front.
Thanks for all the help guys! |
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John DeBoalt
From:
Harrisville New York USA
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 6:16 am
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Dobro capos don't have to touch the neck, just have to pinch the strings at the appropriate fret. the Shubb capo is difficult to adjust , as it has to fit the neck thickness. I have 2 Beards, and a Flux. I use the Flux most of the time now John
_________________
Equipment: Carter D10, Zum Stage1,
Wechter Scheernhorn Reso, Deneve Reso, Fender Jazzmaster, Martin D16, Walker Stereo Steel amp, TC Electronics M One effects unit, JBL 15" speaker cabs,Peavey Nashville 1000,Peavey Revoloution 112, Morrell Lap Steel, Boss DD3 delay,others |
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John DeBoalt
From:
Harrisville New York USA
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 6:16 am
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Dobro capos don't have to touch the neck, just have to pinch the strings at the appropriate fret. the Shubb capo is difficult to adjust , as it has to fit the neck thickness. I have 2 Beards, and a Flux. I use the Flux most of the time now John
_________________
Equipment: Carter D10, Zum Stage1,
Wechter Scheernhorn Reso, Deneve Reso, Fender Jazzmaster, Martin D16, Walker Stereo Steel amp, TC Electronics M One effects unit, JBL 15" speaker cabs,Peavey Nashville 1000,Peavey Revoloution 112, Morrell Lap Steel, Boss DD3 delay,others |
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Dennis Saydak
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 7:15 am
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Check out Martin Gross' website to see what bar he uses. He also shows how to make a great capo. Then, check out the Stingman's website for these items.
I have a Sheerhorn SS bar and love it.
_________________
Dennis
Just when you think you're getting ahead in the rat race, the rats get faster. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 7:58 am
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| Randy Brown wrote: |
I found the Beard capo online - looks like it doesn't touch the neck, while others like the Shubb capo clamp on to the neck. Is one recommended over the other for tone purposes?
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Do not order the Beard capo that has been around for a number of years (brass colored). Paul Beard has redesigned it and has a new one out now which is much superior to the old one. I bought one from him last Fall at Resosummit IV in Nashville. The first batch sold out very quickly and there should be more on the way. You don't need a capo right away anyway, or even for most songs. The top players mainly use a capo to keep up on very fast fiddle tunes that are played for example, in the key of A and you would capo at 2.
Alluding to John's post, the Shubb capo in theory is very good, but it can be a pain to work with your string height unless everything is absolutely perfect on the distance between the strings and the fret board.
_________________
Mark
Last edited by Mark Eaton on 10 Mar 2011 8:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 8:04 am
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| Larry Bressington wrote: |
| As john owen said... and a Stevens bar.. Gauges 13-56 |
I have never heard you play Larry, so maybe a .013 first string works for your style, but I don't know of anyone that uses a first string lighter than .016 for Dobro Open G, GBDGBD, low-to-high. I prefer a .016 or .017, there are a number of folks who go with a .018 (the late Josh Graves for one).
Jerry Douglas prefers a .016, he thinks that anything larger on the first string can sound a little "thuddy."
_________________
Mark |
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Tony Dingus
From:
Kingsport, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 8:18 am
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Randy, look up Phil Ledbetter. He lives in Knoxville too and teaches dobro. I use a Lap dawg bar and I really like and I use G tuning. Lloyd Green uses a round bar and uses A tuning but he doesn't play bluegrass style. He has a sweet tone as does Mike Auldridge.
Tony |
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D Schubert
From:
Columbia, MO, USA
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 8:22 am
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Lots of good comments. Dobro is more "physical" for sure. Just my personal preference, but I like to use brass picks -- to my ear they produce a little deeper tone.
A small bar with sharp points (Scheerhorn, Lap Dawg) is valuable for picking out single notes down near the nut, but is sometimes a little short for slants. Sometimes I'm more comfy with a longer Shubb bar (round on one end, cutoff on the other) with the rounded end closer to my hand.
I use mostly GBDGBD tuning, but have gone to a lighter gage 4th string so I can raise it from D to E for some sixth-sounding chords. (Cindy Cashdollar influence).
I will occasionally tune the bass strings down to DGDGBD -- more like a blues bottleneck tuning -- to have the power chord thing going on -- and bass chords that will work as majors or minors.
Another faux-PSG effect you can use occasionally is to tune the 2nd string down to A and then pull the string back up to B -- behind the bar. This is also know as the painful "cheese slicer" maneuver, and takes some determination to learn. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 12:08 pm
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I would never take another more skilled player than I to task, but not using a CAPO out of the gate for different root positions is a mistake. I stated above that the open position can be recognized as the 4th ( G) with the 7th fret as the root ( D ) now try EX: capo the 2nd fret ( A) and move up 7 frets you are now playing in E. This allows for continuous use of opens strings for phrases and passages.
each to there own but at least know what you are missing... know why you do not want a capo...
yes I know, on the Steel we don't need a capo, AB peds takes us from the 1 to the 4 regardless of where we fret...
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 12:39 pm
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Tony, I agree with your suggestions on the capo and Open G fretboard theory 100%, and perhaps I didn't explain it very well - but my point was really more about the items one has to have as absolute necessities to get started on playing dobro, and in the early weeks of working on your chops I don't believe you really need a capo to get the ball rolling.
One thing I would suggest about this - the capo can become sort of a "crutch" in that one doesn't learn the neck as well as they might sans capo. It's pretty easy to move that capo around and rely a lot on all the Open G licks, I have found myself in the past getting in a rut by putting on the capo too often, but that might be just me...
_________________
Mark |
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