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Topic: diminshed chords on E9th |
Ron Sodos
From:
San Antonio, Texas USA
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Posted 21 Feb 2011 7:12 pm |
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| I am curious what variations of diminished chords people use on the E9th neck? |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 21 Feb 2011 7:34 pm
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E's raised different string groupings.
_________________
A.K.A Chappy.
Last edited by Larry Bressington on 21 Feb 2011 9:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 21 Feb 2011 7:35 pm
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E's raised mostley slide it around.
_________________
A.K.A Chappy. |
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Jody Sanders
From:
Magnolia,Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 21 Feb 2011 8:50 pm
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Mostly 'E" raise. Strings 4,5,6 or 5,6,8. Ocassionally with A&B pedals down, lower "E" and lower "B". Strings 3,4,5 or 5,6,8. Jody.
Last edited by Jody Sanders on 22 Feb 2011 2:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 21 Feb 2011 9:21 pm
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With the E raises, string groupings often including ones with the 9th string, or 2nd string "D" note.
With A&B pedals + E lowers either adding B lowers (if split is tuned) or with A pedal half-pedaled, groupings also including ones with the 7th or 1st string
3rd & 6th string G lowers with A pedal |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 22 Feb 2011 12:23 am
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E raises and AB + E lower + B lower as mentioned, and also BC+ B lower.
Clete |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2011 5:31 am
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The one I use the most is pedal B, 1/2 pedal A (or split tuning on pedal A) and the E's lowered. It's real smooth and gives a full sound. There's a ton of other C6 sounds available with the pedal A 1/2 down.
Hear It!
Greg |
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2011 6:34 am
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| Ron...my first "go to" diminished is actually a Dim7, on strings 9,8,6,& 5 with the E's raised. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2011 8:44 am
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| Just use the knee lever that raises the E to F and the diminished chord is repeated every 3 frets. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 22 Feb 2011 2:12 pm
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| yeah...what erv said...one fret down or two frets up from no pedal major position. |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 22 Feb 2011 5:24 pm
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For the diminished triad, the F lever is perhaps the easiest ways to achieve it.
10, 9, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3 is a large cluster and easy to see all over the place.
Luckily, if you found one, you've found many (every three frets, up or down) which all work in a Diminished Seventh motif.
The E raise is one of the most important levers on PSG.
I use it often just from open to three frets up for a dominant seventh too.
Dominant seventh and diminished are not distant cousins musically.
| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
| Just use the knee lever that raises the E to F and the diminished chord is repeated every 3 frets. |
But I wouldnt say "just" do it that way.
The largest cluster of diminished notes on E9 is AB with E lower and B lower (or half pedal A) which is on all but string 9 out of 10 strings. YMMV.
Part of the beauty of the PSG is its ability to produce almost any chord in a variety of ways.
Past the Diminished Triad and The Dominant Seventh
Diminished 7th chords (4 tones) come in two varieties.
Whole Diminished Seventh (°) chords contain nothing but minor thirds. This means that its Dominant Seventh tone (which is already flatted) is flatted again. This is commonly referred to in notation as a double flat or bb.
Half Diminished Seventh (ø) chords contain the Dominant Seventh (same as Minor Seventh) tone. This is a normal flatted Major (to a Minor or a Dominant) Seventh tone.
Strings 9,8,6,5 with the F lever produce a Whole Diminished Seventh chord.
Raise string 5 a half step by either half-pedal A or A + B lower (vertical lever usually if you have it) and it produces a Half Diminished Seventh (ø) chord.
There are other ways to achieve the half diminished seventh chord. 
AB + B lower* on strings 7,6,5,4 for instance.
I really like the transitions from Minor Seventh to Half Diminished to Whole Diminished to Dominant to Tonic.
ii7, viiø, vii°, V7, I.
All can be done just with pedals and levers without moving the bar!
AB, AB+B lower*, AB +B lower* + E lower, B + E lower, Open.
*or half pedal A
A Forumite Jim Eaton posted this excellent interview clip from 1983.
Watch from 2:00-2:15 closely. He plays six out of seven in a chord scale.
Which one wasnt played? It was the last, diminished seventh chord.
He could have played a dominant seventh (V7) as a substitute, or an actual Diminished Seventh chord (vii°).
The interviewer cut him off before he finished. 
Clete |
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Steve Wood
From:
Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 22 Feb 2011 10:13 pm dim chords
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| great stuff, clete, thanks! |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2011 7:19 am
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"Just" do it my way, it sure is a lot easier.  |
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Jim Hoke
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 23 Feb 2011 7:26 am
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| All you guys who do the half-pedal A thing are a whole lot braver than me. I know Emmons likes to half-pedal that for augmented chords and move that around as well. My pal Jim who works at Cotten Music here in Nashville was told the way to do it is to "curl your toes inside your boot". Darn if it didn't work, but I'm still ascared. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 23 Feb 2011 8:34 am
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Half pedaling works for me on slower stuff, but I can't get it right all the time on faster stuff. Having to hit 1 pedal all the way, one knee lever, and then half pedal another one at the same time quickly would probably throw me into a seizure.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Joe Rogers
From:
Lake Charles, LA USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2011 1:39 pm
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| Jim Hoke wrote: |
| All you guys who do the half-pedal A thing are a whole lot braver than me. |
Jim, a mechanical half stop on your A pedal will be a lot more accurate.....
Just joking !!!! 
Joe Rogers |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 24 Feb 2011 1:51 pm
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| I actually tried that at one time. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 24 Feb 2011 3:00 pm
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I also tried a half stop on a pedal one time, and I couldn't feel where the stop was. It is a lot more noticeable on a knee lever. I think if you played barefoot or in something soft like a moccasin you might be able to feel it.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 24 Feb 2011 5:35 pm
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If you have a zero pedal that lowers the G# strings to G natural, you also can get a diminished chord by using it with the A pedal.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 25 Feb 2011 2:59 am
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Glad you mentioned that Mike.
I put this change on my Ext E9 P0 as an experiment.
I have the Franklin lowers on that pedal usually, but dont use it too often.
I now see why it is such a very useful change in proximity with Pedal A.
Having a diminished chord by only playing two pedals ala AB (In this case P0A)
is a real efficient move. Also, the instant minor with P0 is very useful by itself!
In response to the halfpedal A:
It sure is hard to do!
That is why the Vertical B lower lever is so useful!
It enables you to achieve the half step change accurately without having to guess where half of the pedal step is while doing other important balancing acts.
The only drawback is that there are nuances of the bend that cant be done any smoother than by half pedal, because the mechanics of the lever motion arent smooth in both directions.
Kinda like the E raise and lower on opposite knee argument.
The clockwise circular motion of the change I refer to in my earlier post is very easy to do in the direction indicated, but in reverse is a much more difficult transition to achieve smoothly.
Clete |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 25 Feb 2011 12:17 pm
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Clete... I have no doubt that there are many players who can do what you were explaining above with the half pedaling on real up tempo songs, hitting that diminished for only a beat or two. And I agree that half pedaling has a "different" feel and sound. If I had enough knee levers (heck, I already have 6 on E9th) I would have every change there is. But, I can get nice diminished chords, and can half pedal into the minor (with A+B pedals) good enough that the Bb lever just wasn't one that I used much. Even when I had it, I just half pedaled most of the time anyway.
Anyway, that was some real good info you posted above.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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