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Topic: MSA Day to Emmons changeover advice needed |
Doug Ferguson
From:
Burnet, Texas, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2011 7:33 am |
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I bought this beautiful MSA Classic S10 3-4 this weekend that was set up Day and I'm in the process of changing it over to Emmons. The only thing that was staying the same was the B pedal. This was my first time ever messing with the mechanics on a steel, as my D12 was set up exactly how I needed it when I bought it years ago and has been a "rock" mechanically, only having to tune it. So, I wanted to do this myself and learn.
Without removing any bell cranks and just moving the cranks to the right level position, moving rods and such, I've been able to get everything lined up and attached to the right changers so that all my rods are in line and not cris-crossing each other. (I have one pull on LKL where I need a taller bell crank in that position to have the rod not go a little diagonal to avoid hitting other bell cranks, but I decided to wait til I have this figured out to remove a bell crank that is a 4 hole that's not needed over close to the changer, and swap it with the 2 hole that I'm using on the left end of the guitar, but other than that, it looks perfect under there)
The problem I've created is that specifically on all three pedals, which are each pulling two strings, the timing is off where the pedal starts to pull one string and actually pulls it up to the change before it even starts to pull the other string, and eventually might change the first string two or three full notes. The strange thing is after re-arranging the rods and bell cranks on pedal B so that other rods lined up over or through the bell cranks, now I have the same "feature" on pedal B.
At this point, I stopped Sunday evening and watched a movie with my wife before bedtime as I needed to get my mind off it. Is there some basic rules that I don't know about (obviously!) that apply to doing this set up? This is a 75 model MSA Classic, 3-4 by the way. I do know that you need about 1/8" slack in the rods and that's basically all I could find in the owner's manual. Anyone have some pointers I can gain from? If all else fails, I'll take it to someone who knows what they're doing, but I'd like to learn if I can! Thanks.
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Fergy, MSA Classic D12, MSA Classic S10, Peavey Session 500 |
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 15 Feb 2011 8:56 am
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If it was all timed out correctly when it was in the Day set up and you made a chart of which changer finger hole and bellcrank position each change was in and put it all back the same, just in new locations, it should not have put it out of "time".
Smaller diameter strings will take a longer pull to reach pitch. You need to set the pedal/kl travel for the smallest string 1st and then time the larger strings to match up by adjusting the pull rod locations for them.
JE:-)> |
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Doug Ferguson
From:
Burnet, Texas, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2011 9:18 am
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| Jim Eaton wrote: |
If it was all timed out correctly when it was in the Day set up and you made a chart of which changer finger hole and bellcrank position each change was in and put it all back the same, just in new locations, it should not have put it out of "time".
JE:-)> |
Jim, I guess that would be rule 1.  Wish I had done that! Your second note is good to know. I'm sure I'll have to work this out from smallest string diameter to larger as you said. Thanks for the advice!
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Fergy, MSA Classic D12, MSA Classic S10, Peavey Session 500 |
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Doug Ferguson
From:
Burnet, Texas, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2011 5:51 pm
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Jim, some lights have really come on today after reading your post. I've got my work cut out for me but I think I understand this now. It didn't dawn on me until after reading your post that the position of the bell crank will play a factor in how far the string is pulled as well as the hole the rod is anchored to. I'm looking forward to attacking this again. Now I just have to make room on the kitchen table and get after it. Thanks again for those pieces of info.
Blessings,
Doug
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Fergy, MSA Classic D12, MSA Classic S10, Peavey Session 500 |
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 15 Feb 2011 6:44 pm
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You might give a call to the folks at MSA, they could have a rodding chart that would get you back in "time" with your pulls and then it would be down to fine tuning with the nylon tuning nuts and pedal/kl travel stops. Making a chart before you moved anything would have saved you alot of time, but you'll get it back in shape!
JE:-)> |
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Doug Ferguson
From:
Burnet, Texas, USA
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Posted 17 Feb 2011 1:26 pm
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I worked on it again last night and I have it pretty close to perfect. I'm still adjusting for my fit but I was able to get the bell cranks and rods adjusted so it does the bends and is timed right. Finally got to play it some last night for the first time with my set up and it felt and sounded great. Thanks for the support!
Blessings,
Doug
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Fergy, MSA Classic D12, MSA Classic S10, Peavey Session 500 |
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