I need your opinions on my new pedal design.

Don Christy · Posted 12 Feb 2011 8:02 am

Hi everyone!

I need your opinions on my new pedal design that I have been working on for over a month now.

I got this idea from a golf club, of all places. One
day while I was in a sporting goods store shopping for some fishing equipment, I walked by these golf clubs and BINGO!

I guess this how somethings get invented when you least expect it. Anyway, give me your opinions on this design.

I don't know if this design will work, but I think it sure would be easier on your feet and ankles and with this drop down pedal, you can have less travel distance from pedal to the floor if it was designed right.

The reason for designing this pedal is for steel players who have a disability with their feet and ankles. I have a disability in my right and left feet. Even steel players that don't have a disability in their feet and ankles can benefit with this new design because of the drop in the pedal for less distance when stepping on the pedal.

Guy's and Gal's in the forum, good or bad, I need your thoughts on making this a better pedal or scrap the idea. If someone is interested in manufacturing this pedal to see if it will work, please let me know.

donchristy9000@gmail.com

Thank you!

Don

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

erm... so, you would play A/B with your left foot and BC with your right foot, is that the idea/goal.

Maybe another way to achieve this could be to put the "C"-pedal change on a vertical lever, either as a whole (played only with the "B"-pedal) or as a partial (only raising E to F# while you are on A#B)?

I think that in cases of disabilities, one has to find a PERSONAL solution that FITS the bill. So, maybe your Ford Truck brake "B"-pedal is what YOU need.

In this case, you may want to hinge it at both ends so that it won't tend to wabble or find yourself with a mushy pedal feel.

... J-D.
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A Little Mental Health Warning:

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Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

All I know is that the brake pedal is on the left, and gas on the right.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I don't know what your disability on your left foot is, but I am not sure you could have the pedal that close to floor and still have enough travel to get the changes fully engaged before bottoming out against the floor (especially on floors with thick carpeting). I imagine that real short travels could be obtained, but that still seems too short (1/4" - 3/8"), of course, I have never measured what distance my pedals travel, and that may be in the ballpark.

Like I said, I don't know your disability, but I don't see an advantage to the wide "B" pedal. I can think of 2 songs, just off the top of my head, where I have to shift from the A+B pedals down to B+C pedals down instantly, and that wide pedal would make the distance my foot has to travel take longer. It's a tough move as it is. That there is a good reason for the 4th string E to F# on a lever, which I don't do for lack of an extra lever to put it on.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

the shape of the pedals won't have anything to do with a shorter throw on the pedals (closer to the floor). that action is determined by the physics of the bellcrank and changer pulling mechanism.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Chris, that was what I was trying to get at. He would have to alter the undercarriage with a system to shorten the pulls required. I don't know if it could be done with gears to go from a short pedal pull to the longer undercarriage pulls. It just seems that pedals that close to the floor wouldn't work with (most of) the guitars made now days. But he won't know until he tries, I guess. No explanation was given for the extra wide "B" pedal.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Don Christy · Posted 12 Feb 2011 12:23 pm

Thanks your opinion JD.

The design might work, but I hope I can help those steel players with bad ankles or feet by thinking out of the box on this design.

There might be others who tried to create a different pedal in the past for all steel players, but what I'm trying to do is create a pedal for steel players with disabilities in their ankles and feet to be more comfortable. I want to make these pedals interchangeable with a regular pedal if possible.

Sometimes if you have bad ankles and feet and then you step on pedal A and rotate to pedal B, it can make your ankles and feet hurt. Same with B&C pedal.

It's the rotation and up and down movement of the foot and ankles that I was trying to laminate some of the pressure of the ankles and foot with this design.

The pedal would be only used for steel players who wanted some relief with bad ankles or feet. I thought it would be a pedal for the disability market side for steel players.

I got to thinking outside the box just for this reason. Like I said before, I need lots of opinions if this pedal design could work.

The spacing between the pedals can be whatever you want it to be so you can rotate your foot back and forth between pedals A&B or B&C. This is where the drop in the pedal makes it more comfortable for the rotation.

The drop of the pedal was meant for less travel when the pedal was stepped on. My reason behind the drop of the pedal was, instead of having your foot at a 45 to 60 degree angle, the foot would be at a 20 to 30 degree angle giving relief on the foot or ankle. The rods from the pedal to the changers could work the same as a regular steel pedal, but with a little modification to the drop pedal on the location where the rod will connect to the pedal.

You could have different holes on the drop pedal to connect the rods to it or you could weld a tab on the pedal with holes to connect the rods too.

Just thinking out of the box for new ideas.

Thank you JD for your support!

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Getting the pedals' basic position closer to the floor could be done using standard design pedals by lengthening the pedal rods. Shortening the pedal throw is a different question.

Don Christy · Posted 12 Feb 2011 12:58 pm

Thanks Chris and Richard for your support. Yes, I thought about the bellcranks and underside of the steel guitar. I still think you can modify the pedals to have different connect holes for the drop pedal or weld a tab on the pedals with different location holes for the rods to connect too.

The drop on the pedal can be any measurement for your comfort zone.

These measurements on this drawing are not permanent and can be adjusted. The reason for the B pedal to be like it is in the drawing is to have a little bit of pedal on each side when you have to use the A&B or B&C.

The B pedal does not have to be a long pedal like in the drawing, the idea I had was to make the B pedal as wide as 2 regular pedals put together.

The A&C pedals would be as wide as 3 regular pedals put together and still allow for spacing between the pedals.

Anyway,

Thanks Chris and Richard!

Don Christy · Posted 12 Feb 2011 1:28 pm

Thanks for the support Brint.

I think I will get someone in my area to build a prototype of these pedals and maybe do some modifications if needed. The only thing is I don't have the funds to try it right now.

I'm a retired welder and I might get a hold of one of my old coworkers to do a project with me.I will have to see if he has the time to do this.

If anyone in the forum wants to try making these pedals on your own, please be my guest and do it if you want to.

The pedals on a steel guitar have been the same since the steel came out on the market. Yes people tried to make different designs, but it all comes back to the pedal we have today in a certain way.

It's kind of like your car or truck in a way, you have break lights and headlights in the same place on your vehicle that never changes locations, but the designs of those lights change.

This is kind of what I'm trying to accomplish with these pedals. The pedals are in the same location, but trying to get a different design that works.

Thanks Brint and take care!

Larry Robbins · From: Fort Edward, New York

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Don, thanks for the details. As I see it, the specific problem is the angle of the foot to be able to play pedals that are further from the floor, in other words, a larger angle, causing pain in the ankle and foot. I don't know that a redesign of the pedal is needed. I have played both the narrower pedals that are the norm today, and the wider Sho~Bud pedals and notice no difference. As you pointed out, the problem is really the angle at which your ankle and foot has to be to relieve the pain. That means reducing the distance from the floor to the pedal, and that means you will have to have less travel in the undercarriage to allow the strings to make their full change. That is where I think your focus should be. I don't think a different point on the pedal to attach the pedal rod will be enough to allow the pedal to be that close to the floor and allow the travel needed in the undercarriage. I am assuming (I am not an engineer) that a point further from the pedal bar would allow a shorter travel of the pedal to rotate the crossrod the amount needed. But, that point might be quite a ways out on the pedal and not feasible. I think you would need a system to transfer a small amount of motion (pedal travel) into a larger amount of motion (crossrod). Using gears as an example, the pedal would be a large gear and the crossrod would be a small gear. A little rotation of the large gear would turn the small gear a larger amount,similar to a bicycle. Of course, depending on the individual guitar, this may be possible with moving the rods position in the bellcranks and changer, but I would think (actually hope) that the builder has already mounted these for the best possible pedal action.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Barry Blackwood · Posted 12 Feb 2011 3:46 pm

From the design of the pedals in the drawing, it seems like instead of just moving up and down vertically, they would also move away from you when depressed. Not sure how that would work in the real world. Just sayin'...

Don Christy · Posted 12 Feb 2011 8:29 pm

Larry, thank you for those kind words, I really do appreciate your kindness for supporting me on this project.

You are a great forum member to have around. As far as the gas pedal on the right and brake on the left, I got a big kick out of that. (' Laughing

')

Larry, I'm always thinking of new ideas for the steel guitar and have another idea for the lap steel guitar.

I don't know if anyone has tried this in the past with a lap steel and that is to put a built-in amplifier inside the lap steel itself. With today's electronics being so small, you could have a built-in amp with the speakers on top or bottom built-in too. The guitar would be just a little thicker to incorporate the amp inside, but not much thicker.

Anyway it's thinking out of the box and it could work. If this could be done, just think of all of the kids that could learn the lap steel and not have to worry about an amplifier and speakers. They could just plug-in and play and take the guitar in a case to go anywhere they chose.

The guitar can have volume,treble, tone controls knobs on top and a place to plug a volume pedal into the guitar as a option.

Take care Larry!

Don Christy · Posted 12 Feb 2011 8:43 pm

Richard, I think you came up with a good idea on using gears for this project. I will have to do some research on this and come up with a drawing later.

I really appreciate all of your support on this project so far and your expertise and knowledge on how steel guitars are made.

I can count on you for ideas on this project for sure.(' Very Happy

')

Don Christy · Posted 12 Feb 2011 8:51 pm

Barry, I will check in to this movement of the pedals and come up with something later.

I have a few good ideas now, of what to look for when I get ready to do another drawing later.

Thank you for your support!

Dave Boothroyd · From: Staffordshire Moorlands

Just a thought, and one which is even further outside any box that pedals might be contained in-
Why not put the pedal pivots on the side of the Steel nearest to the player?
Why not operate the pedals with the heel of the foot rather than the toe?
Swivelling your heel left to right using your toes on the ground as a centre is easier than keeping your heel down and swivelling your foot.
You have more power when pressing down with your heel than your toes.
Of course, if you did it that way you'd have to sit "inside" the steel a little more than you do now, and you would need a different arrangement of the pull/ push-pull rods so they did not run straight through your legs.
Left and right knee levers would still be fine, though knee lever up would need rethinking, if raising the knee now became part of operating the pedals.
You do know, by the way, that shortening the throw of your golf-inspired pedals would increase the force required to press them by the same proportion, don't you?
Cheers
Dave

Don Christy · Posted 13 Feb 2011 5:31 am

Dave, that is a good idea you have about using the toes as a center.I will be doing some research on this plus research on gears and other movements suggested in the forum. I got my work cut out for me and I will be coming out with different drawings later.
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By the way forum members, I would like to see you put your drawings on the forum too. This would really get a visual of the different ideas that we can see from other members drawings.

If you can not draw for some reason, I understand because I have a hard time doing it myself.
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Yes,I know about the force it takes with this design and I think I can weld a tab to the pedal that kind of looks like a bell-crank or boomerang that could create this force. It would have adjustment holes for the rods to connect, to help create this force.

I will have to make a prototype of pedal A first to see if it has enough force with this tab idea.

I have some pretty good ideas from the forum members and I really do appreciate everyone's support.

Thank you guy's! Very Happy

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

I don't know if Bud Carter (Carter Steel Guitars) is still available. But if he is, I think you might enjoy talking to him as I believe he knows a thing or two about ankle problems and playing steel guitar.
Sorry no, I don't have his current contact information.
But I would not be surprised to hear that he would show up at the Texas SGA convention(?).

... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________

Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"

A Little Mental Health Warning:

Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.

I say it humorously, but I mean it.

richard burton · From: Britain

I must confess to being slightly baffled by the drawing.

You have drawn the B pedal so that it is double the width of a standard pedal, so that the B+C pedals (or B+A) can be pressed at the same time.

But that is what nearly all pedal steel players have been doing for over 50 years, with standard pedals.

What am I missing here ?

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

Don Christy · Posted 13 Feb 2011 9:40 am

Hey JD,

I drew the pedals on the picture bigger than what it should look like if it were on the steel. The pedals would be on the left side and played with the left foot like the original pedals.

The drop of the pedal would only be about a 1/2 inch or 3/4 of an inch. Original steel pedals are narrow or not as wide on some models.

JD,picture this for a moment, on your A pedal of your steel guitar, start at the end of your pedal and at the top where your shoe meets the pedal, drop down 1/2 inch or up to 3/4 inch. Now that you dropped down, come straight out with a 2 1/2 inch x 2 inch rectangle step with round corners.

This should be the shape like an L. The B&C pedals would be about the same. I thought about making a drop down pedal like this to where you could slip it over the original pedal and have a couple of alan screws to hold it on. This way you can take the add-on pedals off anytime.

By doing it this way, I don't think you have to change anything on your steel guitar. I know you can do the same thing by adjusting the rods so the original pedal lowers closer to the floor, but I did not want to go this route because of the force needed to push on the pedal. I want to keep the original pedals up.

I think this idea might be better than the original idea and would be easier to make. I guess you would call it a drop slip add-on pedal.

The slip-on part could be 3 inch long with 2 alan screws. The pedal would be at the end as I explained earlier. A person could make some of these and let other players try them that have foot and ankle problems and see what the response is.

If it's a good response, then you can start manufacturing them.

I will do some research on Bud Carter and Gene Fields too.

This is still thinking out of the box on this idea.

Thank you JD for the support! This is good information that you gave me.

Don Christy · Posted 13 Feb 2011 9:56 am

Richard,you are not missing anything here. I'm just trying to come up with a better way to have the pedals on the steel guitar drop down a little and a little wider and longer to help some steel players have relief of the foot and ankle pain if they a disability.

Both of my feet have ankle pain when I step on a original steel pedal. Some players have diabetes and there feet swell up.

I'm trying to come up with some sort of pedal or add on pedal for players with disabilities.

Anyway, thanks for posting.

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I understand the wider and longer part, but the height of the pedal above the floor is set by adjusting the rod length. It's easy to do on every steel guitar I've played. I always adjust the rods for foot comfort on A+B and B+C when I get a new guitar.
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