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Topic: How far can you safely lower a string? |
David Griffin
From:
Jimmy Creek,Arkansas via Cowtown, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2010 8:05 am |
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How far can you safely lower a string?"Safely" meaning having it return true.The reason I'm asking is: I've had an idea for a change rollin' around in my head for a while,but I've been told it probably can't be done by more than one person. The change would drop str.6 from G# to E(2steps),str.8 from E to B(2 1/2 steps  ),str;10 from B to G#.(1 1/2 steps). In others words it would drop you down to the next triad in the 1chord. It's the 2&1/2 steps that worries me. I've been told it's all been tried,but ya never know!Opinions 
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http://www.myspace.com/davidagriffin |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2010 8:18 am
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| I don't think the question is how "safely" I can lower a string, the question should be: "is my guitar capable of lowering a string this much"? |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 18 Nov 2010 9:40 am
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I have a 2 1/2 note lower to B on the Extended (low) E string, and it returns true alright. It's a .056NW string though, which at that low note means very short throw. The pull-rod is also hooked-up below the lower-return spring on the lower-finger to avoid reverse-pull on the raise-finger, and the lower-adjustment therefore has to be on the bellcrank.
Many PSGs don't have change-range for more than around 1 1/2 note lower of regular E9 strings. Only way to find out for sure is to put a rod in the lowest hole on the relevant lower and start pulling. If the raise-finger starts rising before the lower-finger has come far enough back, the lower-hole isn't close enough to the lower-return spring. Reducing tension on the lower-return spring may work, but too low tension will of course mess up the raise so you may find out that your changer simply can't handle extreme lowers. |
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Joe Naylor
From:
Avondale, Arizona, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2010 9:48 am
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I agree with Check with the steel builder - I know of a couple or 3 builders that have strong opinions on raisers and lowers on their steel.
They can also tell you that (so and so) does this - most will give you a name.
Joe Naylor
www.steelseat.com and Road Cases too
_________________
Joe Naylor, Avondale, AZ (Phoenix) Announcer/Emcee owner www.steelseat.com *** OFFERING SEATS AND Effects cases with or without legs and other stuff ****** -Desert Rose Guitar S-10, Life Member of the Arizona Carport Pickers Assoc., Southwest Steel Guitar Assoc., Texas Steel Guitar Assoc., GA Steel Guitar Assoc., KS Steel Guitar Assoc. (Asleep at the Steel) tag line willed to me by a close late friend RIP |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2010 10:24 am
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| Paul Franklin has some huge changes on his guitar but then most of use don't play a Franklin. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 18 Nov 2010 11:11 am
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
| ... most of use don't play a Franklin. |
Right, we don't 
A degression, but ... one may get hold of an old Dekley and start pulling. I can get 3 to 7(!) half-note lowers on mine, depending on which string I'm lowering. More than 4 to 5 half-notes lower doesn't sound too good for any string on it though - they start sounding "loose" and "lousy" 
But, at least on mine they all return true when released from extremes - which I think was the initial condition, and that depends more on string-slipping, settling-time and other "hysteresis" factors - in rollers etc - than in how far those lowers can go.
David, what brand/type of PSG are you trying to get those extreme lowers on? Do you intend to use original string gauges? |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2010 12:13 pm
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I find it very easy to just bump pedal 2 (G# to A) after executing the G# to E lower. Anymore I do it without even thinking and can't see where any other solution is needed. Same process for the other strings. You don't even have to totally raise the string after a lower. Just a light hit of the raise pedal or knee lever seems to put the string back in tune. YMMV.
Greg |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 18 Nov 2010 12:56 pm
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On Franklin guitars you'd have a lower return comp, Greg. That would avoid the lower returning sharp. Paul already comps that string on the G# to F# lower -- not sure how tricky the adjustment would be but -- rest assured that Paul Franklin would not have that change on his guitar if it didn't return true. It is a cool change but kind of a one trick pony.
Different guitars have different geometry and different pull characteristics. I don't think a 2 whole tone drop is going to make or break your career.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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Billy Tonnesen
From:
R.I.P., Buena Park, California
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Posted 18 Nov 2010 8:24 pm
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| Question: If you lower a string too far down doesn't it need a different guage string for the note to blend in with the other notes you are playing. Seems like the string would be too "mushy". |
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Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2010 9:14 pm
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Fred Justice seems to lower his 10th string on his personal Justice guitar, impossibly low. I don't recall the details, but I couldn't believe my ears. Maybe he'll chime in.
_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 19 Nov 2010 4:05 am
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| If it doesn't work out, why not reduce the lowering on all three strings by a half-step, and move the bar one fret back instead? |
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 19 Nov 2010 9:54 am
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Conventional wisdom: You can lower it a lot more than you can raise it! 
But, this is levity from someone who has tested the limits of lowering the bottom string on the bottom neck.
The secret is: "after you have lowered it, pluck it gently".
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"FROM THEN TIL' NOW" |
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David Griffin
From:
Jimmy Creek,Arkansas via Cowtown, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2010 6:13 am
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Thanks for the replies,everyone! I haven't actually started to try this change yet,that's why I posted this question. .I thought surely someone else has tried this before. I own three steels:a ShoBud LDG,a Rusler 12 str. Uni & a Carpsteel. The Carpsteel is the only one likely to be capable of this. I'm pretty sure I will have to go to larger diameter strings for it to work. OK,NOW, what do you think of the change itself? Would it be useful enough to bother with? I first thought of it while trying to find a way to get lower voicings on a 10 str. E9 setup. I can imagine a few uses for it,such as resolving from the AB pedals down IV chord to the I chord,then on down to the next triad in the I chord. And of course the opposite would work.OPINIONS Thanks!>>>dg BTW: Mr.Berner,that is an excellent idea,I'll remember that.
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http://www.myspace.com/davidagriffin |
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David Griffin
From:
Jimmy Creek,Arkansas via Cowtown, USA
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 30 Nov 2010 7:41 am
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David,
Click here
Paul Franklin has used both BIG 6th string pulls -- G# to B and G# to E -- for a number of years. You will occasionally hear those pulls on recordings -- can't quote you chapt & verse re: which songs. My opinion? It's somewhat of a gimmick pull but if that change is important to you, by all means have at it. When that 020p string is at E it will feel like a rubber band. I believe Paul mentioned that this change is not on all his guitars.
If you want lower voicings on E9 use your 12 string. That's what I did 35 years ago and have only owned one D-10 in all that time. YMMV.
Do you have G# to F# on your guitar? If so, it's easy to work with that pull to get an extra whole tone out of it. You may have to change leverage positions on the bellcrank and/or the changer hole.
I always keep one pedal and/or one lever on all my guitars to try stuff like that out. Some changes are bread and butter and some are just the jam.
Just my opinion.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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Peter den Hartogh
From:
Cape Town, South Africa
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Posted 13 Dec 2010 12:13 pm
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About 7 years ago I tried Paul Franklin's drop of 5 frets on string 6.
I made an extra long bell crank for this but I couldn't close the case. So I took it off.
This is what my experiment sounded like:
Click here
Remington 12 string Universal with original Danny Shields Crap Trap pick up.
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1977 Sho~Bud D10 ProIII Custom; Sho~Bud SD10 The Professional ; ETS S10 5x5;
Fender 1000; 1993 Remington U12; 1978 Emmons S10 P/P; GeorgeB Weissenborn;
Fluger Cat-Can; Asher Electro Hawaiian; Gibson BR4; Fender FS52; Guyatone 8str;
Fender Resonator ; Epiphone Coronet 1937; Rickenbacher Ace; Rickenbacher NS;
Dynalap 8string; Harbor Lights 8string; Aiersi Tri-Cone; Fender Stringmaster |
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