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Topic: P4 on C6th |
b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 17 Nov 2010 8:55 am |
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It seems to me that P4, the first C6th pedal, should also raise the middle C note to D. I never use the B and C notes together, but I often need the D.
Has anyone here ever added that change to P4? What are the pros and cons?
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 17 Nov 2010 9:15 am
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I'm assuming you mean the 7th string C when you say middle. That would screw up the maj7 chord using the pedal to raise 4 to A and play strings 4 - 7. String 7 would be the root.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 17 Nov 2010 9:33 am
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
| I'm assuming you mean the 7th string C when you say middle. That would screw up the maj7 chord using the pedal to raise 4 to A and play strings 4 - 7. String 7 would be the root. |
Right, but that same chord is available with P7, and also with the knee that lowers the 3rd string C to B. You don't need P4 to play that maj7.
_________________
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Dan Galysh
From:
Hendersonville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 17 Nov 2010 10:52 am
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I have this change on Pedal 4. Hal Rugg used this change a lot to get his jazz chordal voicings on strings 3, 5, 7 (with the C to D raise) and 8. This change, along with the standard Pedal 5, 8th string A to Ab lower and 3rd string C to B lower opens up a lot of possibilities.
However, I don't raise 4 on this pedal. I have the standard Pedal 4, As to Bs on RKR with a half stop at Bb.
I haven't run into any cons. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 17 Nov 2010 1:01 pm
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| Quote: |
| Right, but that same chord is available with P7, and also with the knee that lowers the 3rd string C to B. You don't need P4 to play that maj7. |
Very true, and that is usually what I use to get the maj7. But there are times when I am doing single note runs where I do play the C (string 3)immediately after the B on the 4th string. Pedal 7 would require me to step onto it and then off quicker than I could do it. Lowering the 3rd string wouldn't give the slide from 6 to maj7 that I like. I have the 4th string raise on a knee lever, and it only raises string 4 to B and a half stop at Bb. I could very easily do without the full raise on the A strings, except with pedal 6.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
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Posted 17 Nov 2010 3:08 pm
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I have that middle C-D 7th string raise all by itself on pedal 4.
I moved the A's to B change to a KL with a good half stop that also pulls both A's to Bb. I will always be eternally grateful to our friend Earnest Bovine for pointing out the possibilities to me and Jim Palenscar for helping to make it actually work on my axe....and it works GREAT BTW! I can get all the chords b0b is talking about, plus many others. It's really nice to not have to raise the top B when you play the middle D.
Having that D right next to pedal 5 opens up alot of great things! It's nice to pedal between the D dominant chord with pedal 5 to a straight D Major in that range! *think the "What I Say" piano lick*
On it's own, having the D in the middle is a very jazzy way to get quartal(4th)harmonies, and it let's you keep the strings that you might be giving up if you ever considered having the dedicated D string that BE and Terry Crisp (and you too Dan G.?) have been experimenting with.
Of course my love of jazz dissonance really likes it in conjunction with the C-B 3rd string lower, the A's to Ab lowers, and of course my A's to B raises. 
Last edited by Rick Schmidt on 17 Nov 2010 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Herby Wallace
From:
Sevierville, TN, R.I.P.
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Posted 17 Nov 2010 3:10 pm Pedal 4
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I use this pedal quite a bit and I would need to keep the 7th string, C note, there as I play some minor 9th voicings using the 7th and 8th string together being a half step apart for this sound. If you wanted the D note on the 7th string, I would put it on a knee lever by itself.
Herby Wallace
P.S. The minor 9th chord I am speaking of would be an A minor9th in the open position. Of course, the A root is not there, but doesn't matter the way it is used. |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 18 Nov 2010 5:01 am
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b0b, needing that D note is Probably why Terry Crisp and some others opted to drop the low C string and move strings 8 and 9 down to the 9th and 10th slots. Then you'd add a D string between the C and E as string seven. I have the same thing on my U-12 where I've dropped the low B string and added a C# in position nine. If you do that on C6th your tuning would look like this......
G (or D)
E
C
A
G
E
D.....
C
A
F
It pretty much serves the same function as the 7th string F# on an E9 tuning..........JH in Va.
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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!! |
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Franklin
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Posted 18 Nov 2010 6:27 am
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or you could raise the F to A.....The A to C... and the C to D on one pedal......
You can also lower the E to D in the position.......Paul |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 18 Nov 2010 8:35 am
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I'm no Herby Wallace or Paul Franklin. But I prefer lowering the E to D, (separate lever) as opposed to raising the C to D.Anyone else with me? I use the change mostly for single string work. The C to D may be better for chord work.
bb |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2010 9:24 am
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| Jerry Hayes wrote: |
| b0b, needing that D note is Probably why Terry Crisp and some others opted to drop the low C string and move strings 8 and 9 down to the 9th and 10th slots. Then you'd add a D string between the C and E as string seven. |
Yes, that's what I did on my 12 string C6th. It makes the tuning more versatile, but a bit harder to play.
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 18 Nov 2010 9:40 am
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| I'm with Bobby(and Doug Jernigan) on this! I lower 6th string E-D on VKL then use it with 5,6,7,and/or C-B KL!JS |
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