Zane's UPDATE on Fretted Pedal Guitar THANG!

Zane King · From: Nashville, TN

I want to at least give you all an update on my Pedal Guitar. I think the fun part of this development for me is getting all of the feedback. It also helps as I continue to push forward on this concept.

First off, there are several guitar manufacturers that offer 7 and 8 string electric guitars. Pictured below is an 8 string. Just simply putting this guitar in my lap and playing it is tremendous fun! Right now, my dad and I are in the process of working on a pedal setup for such a guitar. It may ultimately be better to take a steel guitar and retrofit the fretboard to it. However, right now I am experimenting with doing it the other way around. So just imagine this guitar in the pic cased in a steel guitar structure where you can add pedals and knee levers. WOW!

Of course, another likely scenario is to adopt Gene Field's idea of a double neck. See pic below. There are advantages to this of course and likely I will want both models. Keep in mind that on either the stand alone or one like Gene's that a bar can still be used on the fretted neck. Personally, when it comes to blues/rock it seems that a steel guitarist would have immense advantage on playing the fretted pedal guitar with a slide.

At any rate, I thought you all would get a kick out of these pics and maybe this will continue to push ideas forward. I HIGHLY encourage you to not think of this as counterproductive to the development of the pedal steel guitar. Please consider once again if I am able to develop such an instrument, apply music theory, create technique and engage talented people then such an effort could possibly impact the world of steel guitar substantially. HOW? Once again, the vast majority of would be steel players 30 and under rarely come along because of the traditional sound on a country record. Of course, they do once and in awhile and that will continue. Yet, not near at the level of what I feel the potential is overall. Why is this? Some of it has to do with the fact that much of the sounds of our instrument do not at first attract the younger and gifted would be musician.

So here is my thought on how this could contribute. First of all, it's a matter of economics. Almost every entity of any value in the world of musical instrument manufacturing completely stays away from the steel guitar community. I have seen through the years various products produced by majors and sold through major chains. Rarely happens much anymore. That all said, if this "apparatus" could be developed it likely would be a product that many existing steel guitar builders could benefit from because of the created market for it. Of course, they would need to be adaptable. If not, I'm sure there would develop a guitar manufacturer that would capitalize on this possible market that would be linked to the electric guitar world. Which is pretty large don't you think?

Lastly, I think the greatest benefit of all is the connection this would ultimately have to the pedal steel guitar. With 10-25 year old kids learning to play one of these things the natural progression and appeal of being able to play traditional pedal steel will be almost absolute. Especially as they age. Our musical tastes evolve for the most part. So the stand alone and combo steel guitar instruments would eventually have a significant place in the music community at large.

Stay tuned,
Zane
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Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

Zane,I was wondering if your Dad is also a musician?He sure builds some great looking guitars. Winking

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David Griffin · From: Jimmy Creek,Arkansas via Cowtown, USA

Zane:I thought you might be interested in this. I've always wanted a pedal guitar like Phil Baughs' but could never find out what happened to his.(I most likely couldn't afford one if I found it! Very Happy

) So I installed part of an old ShoBud Maverick changer in a Peavey Tele copy. I used lawn mower throttle cables attached to some floor pedals.I pull the 2nd & 3rd string up a whole step. It works great!.It would be cool to have a pedal on each string like Phils'.Of course I don't lay it in my lap to play it.But the general idea might work for you.
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basilh · From: United Kingdom

Interesting post Dave, I would have thought that the 2nd up a whole step and the third up a half step would have been more useful. Rolling Eyes

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David Griffin · From: Jimmy Creek,Arkansas via Cowtown, USA

Basil: I thought the same thing when I first set the thing up,but the halfstep pull just didn't turn out to be near as useful as the whole step,for me anyway. You (as was I) are thinking along the lines of the pedal steel "A-B pedal/1chord to 4chord" pull. I know it seems redundant,but pulling the 3rd string a whole step opens up a whole new world of single notes & especially double stops to pull the 3rd string against. The thing I like the most about it is being able to get the Tele B&G-Bender sounds without having to pull down on the neck. Also,it's much faster. Smile

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J. Michael Robbins · From: Dayton, OH now in Hickory, NC

Here is an M.S.P. Pedal Bender, similar to Dave's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vALAYxUpZC8
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David Griffin · From: Jimmy Creek,Arkansas via Cowtown, USA

Michael:That's cool!MUCH better machining than mine. Very Happy

Let's not hijack Zanes' thread,just wanted to show the potential of using cables. If anyone wants to discuss pedal guitars,let's start a new thread,OK? Cool

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Zane King · From: Nashville, TN

Thanks, David!

I do appreciate the link about the guitar with pedals. Pretty interesting but far from what my concept actually will become. This of course is a step in that direction. Tim Wallis indeed has some very nice ideas on this as well.

My structure is actually much more akin to a pedal steel guitar. It will have knees and pedals. Right now, my Dad is feverishly working on a new apparatus that I think you all are going to amazed with!!! Can't wait to show yuns! Then the other idea on this "concept" is to simply place a fretboards underneath a steel neck. Truly this is evolving. At this point, it appears that an 8 string instrument that is honestly a hybrid between an electric guitar and pedal steel is likely the answer. Of course, tunings, theory, and technique are not even yet on the radar. I first have to have playable and changeable instrument. We are indeed getting there!!!

Stay tuned,

Zane
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Email: zaneking@me.com

Mike Neer · From: NJ

Zane, don't tell you me you have guitar envy! Laughing

Do you play guitar?
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Zane King · From: Nashville, TN

Guitar envy? Never heard of it. Very Happy

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Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Zane, I think your idea of an eight string neck is probably the way to go also. I believe that's what Gene Fields (in your picture) has on his guitar. Blackie Taylor has a six string fretted neck on his as well as does Fred Newell on his......How 'bout another video of yours when you get time......JH in Va.
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Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Right; Gene uses standard dobro tuning plus high G and low D.
Mine is standard guitar (almost)

Zane King · From: Nashville, TN

Hey, Jerry! Yeah, I've got to get a some fresh vids out asap. I live a crazy but blessed life! Overwhelming at times. Oh Well

I appreciate the postings on those tunings. To this point, my concept on the tuning is really a hybrid between standard guitar and my steel guitar tuning. Of course, I'm still pouring through and experimenting every possibility but I do think I'm very close. I'll wait and share some of those details when I can give you an example. Just keep in mind that I have two-fold purpose with the development of an instrument like this. First, I want to be able to use my 30 plus years of knowledge about my steel knowledge. Paul Franklin eluded to the fact this idea might be valid but there is too much to relearn. If I can minimize the theory then it will be mostly a matter of just learning new technique with the left hand. Keep in mind that I also will indeed use a slide in the left hand. I think this likely will drive this development forward because the rock/blues/soul country will be natural with this apparatus! Secondly, I also want the existing guitarist to be intrigued by this "thang". Point in case, I just engaged a young kid who is 13 years old and plays electric guitar like a 22 year old graduate of Berklee! Needless to say, he was extremely excited about this possibility! AND he will in 15 minutes do things that I'll never dream of doing just because of his ability and dexterity with the fingerings on the left hand. Let alone just the musical thought in his young mind. THIS convinced me that I'm indeed on to something HUGE here.

SO.....I'll keep you posted but I do think I have a couple of breakthroughs with this that will no doubt propel this forward. Basically, it is a complete hybrid of an electric guitar and a pedal steel both structurally and musically.

Stay tuned....

Zane
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Email: zaneking@me.com

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

I've been thinking for some time of building a Mountain Dulcimer with pedals, which I would do by using the mechanism of an old PSG and building a dulcimer body on top. The sound would be something never before available.

An electric mountain dulcimer and a lap steel are the same instrument. I've built many mountain dulcimers and many lap steels over the years, and I've built several that can be played either way. All that they lack is pedals.

Clete Ritta · From: San Antonio, Texas

Three things popped into my head.
Junior Brown—his newest GuitSteel has pedals I think.
Hipshot Trilogy—I like the flexibility of alternate tunings.
Innovation—A new pedal lever design.

If the center position is used as "open" tuning on the Hipshot, both a lower and a raise on each string is possible with one lever. I don't use it as such (only lowers), but conceptually it is possible. Although its not smooth across the detent center, even on PSG the E raise to E lower isnt continually smooth unless you have them on opposite knees.
B-benders and PSG are one direction per string per gadget i.e a rod either raises or lowers, not both.

What if the pedal had an upper bar or cup so that your foot could pull up as well as press down? Or a seesaw type footpedal that could use the heel and toe? Then you could conceivably raise and lower a string with one gadget?

Perhaps this has all been tried and dismissed by builders.
Im just thinking out loud here, just some food for thought.
Good luck!

Clete

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