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Topic: frustrated steel players? - open for comment |
Don Hinkle
From:
Springfield Illinois, USA
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Posted 7 Nov 2010 4:00 pm |
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Ok, I have always heard that most all bass players are "frustrated lead players".. now as a steel player for 2 years now, its almost like a lot of country lead guitar players are frustrated Steel players.
I have got to set in with quite a quite a few country bands in the last year on the pedal steel and even when I just go to hear a country band, the lead players really try to play alot of pedal steel licks. I was one of those guys to I must admit. I have a B bender tele and was trying to steel "alan Jacksons" steel players licks for 15 years. Of course not having any idea who Paul franklin was.
What is interesting to me, is that I have had many conversations with lead players in the last 2 years and have been so surprised at how many of them bought a pedal steel in the past and gave up on it.
In my neck of the woods, there are 5 to 7 good country lead pickers and every one of them has owned and attempted pedal steel. Only one of them still plays it today (he stuck it in for the long haul, been playing over 20 years or so).
Any thoughts?
I wonder if these statistics are true in other areas?
Don
_________________
Emmons Legrande III SD10
Emmons Legrande III D10
Session 400
Fender guitars
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Mark Dershaw
From:
Arizona and Ohio
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Posted 7 Nov 2010 4:29 pm
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| Oh yeah... guitar players are constantly trying to cop steel licks. Most of the time it is out of necessity. We all know that having a steel in the band is just gravy on the potatoes so in a lot of cases, the lead player is expected to take up the slack. What's entertaining to me is that there is no instrument that can emulate the steel guitar. A b-bender has an interesting sound (I like it) but it does not sound like a steel guitar! The guitar player that has come the closest IMO is the lead player for Robbie Fulks. He incorporates a whammy bar and chord movement and does some pretty amazing stuff. Close... but still no cigar. When a lead player finally gets frustrated enough to buy a steel and try to learn how to play it, well, I feel sorry for them. Different animal all together. |
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 7 Nov 2010 4:42 pm
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Most of the guitar players that try for a steel sound are going for the sound we get on strings 4,5 and 6 on our E9th. The guitarist with the most depth to me is Jimmy Capps who plays a lot of our strings 6, 7 and 9 voicings. I have known and observed him for a long time and his chord movements emulate a lot of our pedal sounds. One the best examples of his steel inspired solos on record is on the Louvin Bros. "The Second Time Around" on Capitol.
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LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro |
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Les Anderson
From:
The Great White North
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Posted 7 Nov 2010 8:11 pm
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I am going to go out on a very thin limb with this comment; however, the Lord hates a coward.
If you have been playing pedal steel for only two years and you are on the stage with a lead guitarist who has been playing for ten, fifteen or more years, that lead guitarist can probably play ten times the number of steel guitar licks than you can.
I have played with some lead guitarists who have turned playing steel guitar licks into a fine art. Fifty-five years of stage work has taught me to respect the abilities of other musicians who can do amazing things on their instruments. |
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Bob Vantine
From:
Freeville, New York, USA
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Posted 7 Nov 2010 9:09 pm
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I still play mostly 6 string ,mostly because of working with too many fine steel players over the last 30+ years...some here on the forum.
In all my years playing lead I never tried to sound or play steel licks....never played that way.A few steelers have told me tho it's easy to work with me ,I hope because I understand them,listen to them,play off them, and don't try to bury them.
Comes down to respect of & for the music , musicians , and probably for the most part the instrument itself.
I want a guitar to sound like a guitar & a steel to sound like a steel. I want to enjoy it....and hopefully everyone else to.
The nites sitting behind my steel ,with my guitar strapped to the front of me , I don't want to switch back & forth & almost sound the same . I'd buy a guitar synth and do that if making different noises was all I was interested in . I play guitar because I'm good at it , and that's what I do. I play steel (not so good) because that's what I love . I play other things too , cuz it helps with $$$$ .
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EQUIPMENT:
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Scott Shipley
From:
The Ozark Mountains
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Posted 7 Nov 2010 9:12 pm
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| Mark Dershaw wrote: |
| Oh yeah... guitar players are constantly trying to cop steel licks. |
Remember when PSG players played PSG on PSG instead of "I got 16 bars, how many notes can I fit in?"
Just sayin.
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Scott Shipley Facebook |
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Billy Murdoch
From:
Glasgow, Scotland, U.K.
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Posted 8 Nov 2010 12:53 am
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I played in a three piece some years ago and I doubled on Pedal steel and Guitar.I workrd very hard at home and learned one particular good steel lick on guitar.
I said to the singer at the start of one evening listen to My pedal steel lick and proceeded to astound Him with My string bending phenomenon.
He replied with a strange expression on His face saying "why are You trying to sound like a pedal steel when You already have a pedal steel"?
I like lead players with b benders when there is no pedal steel in the band but there is nothing worse
(to My ears)than to hear pedal steel and lead guitar playing the same or similar licks.
Best regards
Billy |
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Joe Cook
From:
Lake Osoyoos, WA
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Posted 8 Nov 2010 4:51 am
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| I've played lead guitar in bands for 35 years now and sometimes had to try to emulate the sound of PSG so it sounded "like the record" and also because it was impossible to find a pedal steel player where I lived. Mind you I was never able to copy that sound, which is why I recently took up PSG. But I always enjoyed what people like Danny Gatton, Arlen Roth and Redd Volkaert can do. I think it's great when a player can try to cop a sound of another instrument. Guitar seems to be an instrument that can steal lines because of its' intrinsic design. You'll hear horn lines in T-Bone Walker and lots of blues players. Even PSG players will try to emulate organ tones. Trying to make the sounds of my other favorite instruments is a fun challenge for me. |
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Billy Carr
From:
Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)
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Posted 8 Nov 2010 7:51 am psg
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| Guitar players need to play lead guitar, not steel licks on a guitar. That's very annoying to me personally. I don't like it and won't play with players that do it. If there going to do this then why even have a steel in the band. |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 8 Nov 2010 8:05 am
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For the most part, I agree with Billy. I find most guitarists that play steel licks boring - they can't do what we do, no matter what they think. When it becomes annoying is when they play steel licks in a band with a steel. Can you say "redundant?"  |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 8 Nov 2010 8:21 am
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I have to admit that I still play a few steel licks on regular guitar when I play lead. This is because I'm not a very good lead player. Neither am I a great singer, so these were two of the reasons why I started to play steel about twenty years from today.
I'm still disapointed about my singing voice. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 8 Nov 2010 8:55 am
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I don't mind hearing a guitarist trying to pull off some steel licks on guitar... but NOT when there is a steel player in the band!! To do so is insulting and basically says, "Even though you're sitting right there playing in this band, I'm going to play my cheap cartoonish versions of pedal steel licks for the audience." I won't play more than once with a guitarist like that.
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www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Leslie Ehrlich
From:
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted 8 Nov 2010 8:59 am Re: frustrated steel players? - open for comment
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| Don Hinkle wrote: |
| I have got to set in with quite a quite a few country bands in the last year on the pedal steel and even when I just go to hear a country band, the lead players really try to play alot of pedal steel licks. |
They can try all they want, but they will never be able to make their guitars sound like a PSG.
I am a guitarist, I know very little about how to play PSG, but I have one anyway. I got one because it has a sound that cannot be replicated by a conventional electric guitar, and when I'm recording sometimes I want that sound. 
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Sho-Bud Pro III + Marshall JMP 2204 half stack = good grind! |
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Stephen Gregory
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Posted 8 Nov 2010 10:46 am Re: frustrated steel players? - open for comment
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| Don Hinkle wrote: |
Ok, I have always heard that most all bass players are "frustrated lead players".. now as a steel player for 2 years now, its almost like a lot of country lead guitar players are frustrated Steel players.
I have got to set in with quite a quite a few country bands in the last year on the pedal steel and even when I just go to hear a country band, the lead players really try to play alot of pedal steel licks. I was one of those guys to I must admit. I have a B bender tele and was trying to steel "alan Jacksons" steel players licks for 15 years. Of course not having any idea who Paul franklin was.
What is interesting to me, is that I have had many conversations with lead players in the last 2 years and have been so surprised at how many of them bought a pedal steel in the past and gave up on it.
In my neck of the woods, there are 5 to 7 good country lead pickers and every one of them has owned and attempted pedal steel. Only one of them still plays it today (he stuck it in for the long haul, been playing over 20 years or so).
Any thoughts?
I wonder if these statistics are true in other areas?
Don |
I'm guessing the "Frustrated Bass Players" mentioned above are "not very good" bass players either. BTW, a great Steel Player can "bury" those tinny little 6 string thingy's most of the time, particularly on Cth. |
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Don Hinkle
From:
Springfield Illinois, USA
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Posted 8 Nov 2010 3:14 pm
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My point may not have gotten across .. I was asking if in your area, have most of the country guitar pickers taken a whirl at the pedal steel? I was just so surprised that these country pickers whom I have known for 25 years, at one time or another had a pedal steel at home and gave up on learning it.I had no clue!
Don
_________________
Emmons Legrande III SD10
Emmons Legrande III D10
Session 400
Fender guitars
Fender amps |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 8 Nov 2010 5:05 pm
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Deleted
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.
Last edited by Richard Sinkler on 19 Nov 2010 2:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Alan Tanner
From:
Near Dayton, Ohio
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Posted 8 Nov 2010 5:36 pm
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| Well, regardless of whether your ego will let you admit it or not, many guitar pickers do an excellent job of covering for a steel when there is no steel in the band. It's no more than an "effect". The same as you would use an electronic device to get a fake dobro sound. It makes the music more interesting to the audience, who usually only knows if it "sounds good" and could care less how the sounds are generated. I do not use my volume pedal or B bender when playing with a steel in the band, but I sure do when there isn't one. Is it exact...no...but on the other hand, doing banjo rolls on a steel do not make it sound like a banjo and thumb picking on a steel don't make you sound like Chet Atkins either. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 8 Nov 2010 6:13 pm
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Alan said some things that I forgot to mention. If there is no steel player, then I have no problem listening to a guitar player trying to fill the gap. And yes, there are many guitar players who can pull it off great, but there are also many who sound like crap doing it.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 8 Nov 2010 6:19 pm This ought to be good!
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 8 Nov 2010 11:33 pm
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| Well,it's Tele players who do that the most,and why not? After all,Leo's lap steels were what gave rise to the Tele.To respond to the OP's query,the answer is yes.Most of the country lead players I've known over the years were REAL interested in pedal,and some of them took it up.I took up PSG because I realized I was trying to make my Tele sound like one.Best musical move I ever made. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 9 Nov 2010 2:48 am
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| Don Hinkle wrote: |
| My point may not have gotten across .. |
Sure did. I don't know about "all" - haven't paid much attention in later years, but I know about a few 6 string players in my area this side of the pond that have tried PSG one time or another, and have either given up and sold early on, or have one standing somewhere so they can make a mess of playing it on rare occasions.
Myself: I couldn't emulate PSG sounds and styles well enough for comfort on a 6 strings, so I first built 2 simple PSGs (that sounded OK but were too limited mechanically) and then bought one that I'm still trying to learn how to play thirty years later. Don't play 6 strings, bass, banjo(!), zither or autoharp anymore ... but I guess I could make a mess of playing them if ever I wanted to  |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 9 Nov 2010 8:11 am
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| I know two guitar players, that gave up playing steel after a short while. One of them teaches guitar and the other is cosidered to be a virtuoso doing a lot of these acoustic guitar evenings, (where most of the people marvel at his amazing talent which leaves me cold), and also lots of sessions. I guess they both tired very quickly of the exercises they had to go through to play it halfway decent. Also I think they were not really country music fans. |
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