e9th 9th string

Brian Henry · Posted 30 Oct 2010 8:56 am

I find no use for this string tuned to D - What would be a better note to tune it to?
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Bobby Snell · From: Austin, Texas

Maybe before anybody jumps in to tell you that you need to learn to use it.... Mr. Green

Think about changing your 10 and 9 strings to E and B and put the A-pedal(B-C#) change on the 9th string. It goes even better if you have a way of lowering the now B 9th string to A.

Bo Borland · From: South Jersey -

Finding no use for the #9 D ? Laughing

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

No use for the 9th string? I guess you don't like major 7th chords, or fast runs on the low strings.

If I didn't use it, I'd tune the 9th string to B and the 10th to G# or low E. That would get more range out of the guitar.

But I do use it, and have always found it very handy. If you're not using it, maybe you just don't understand it.
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Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

TB,

I agree with the others, who've suggested keeping it and start using it.

Just take a few minutes, and experiment with using the E's lowered, E's raised, A & B pedals, B Pedal only, and see just how many cords you come up with, and that's without raising (or lowering) the 9th string at all.

I think you'll be quite amazed at what you find....

Barry Hyman · From: upstate New York, USA

Check out this thread: A few months ago I posted maybe twenty five or thirty E9 chords that use the ninth string D as the root:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=186063&highlight=

Further down in the thread I posted the details about how to grip each one... Very Happy

If that ain't useful what is?

(And that ignores scales, melodies, and chords that include the ninth string but don't start on it...)
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I give music lessons on several different instruments in Cambridge, NY (between Bennington, VT and Albany, NY). But my true love is pedal steel. I've been obsessed with steel since 1972; don't know anything I'd rather talk about... www.barryhyman.com

Larry Allen · From: Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii

For some full guitar chords, .038 on 9.....B note, A pedal takes down to A, RKR up to C#,...........056 on 10.........Low E, F lever drops to C#.....FUN E9.....Larry

Rick Winfield · From: Pickin' beneath the Palmettos

I rarely lower the 9th string, but find I'd be lost without its usefullness. I would delve into it before changing it
Rick

Brian Henry · Posted 31 Oct 2010 2:19 am

Ok guys, thank you for all the help. I will spend a week or two in the practice room trying to do what you have suggested. I appreciate your help.

regards, Brian henry
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Zane King · From: Nashville, TN

Well, you guys knew at some point I might pipe in here. Very Happy

I'm the radical who claims to have improved the bottom side of the E9 tuning. Of course, this is just a claim! For those who have used it for a lifetime I likely appear like an idiot but that's okay I've got ex-wives who think the same time. Very Happy

I invite you to consider my S10 E 6/9 Tuning. If nothing else you might just take a look at the bottom side. In a nutshell this is what you do...

String #8 - Tuned to E - lower to Eb and raise to F like everyone else on the planet. Then find a knee lever or pedal (not as good) where you can also lower to a D. On this same lever I will have you to some else to. see below.

String #9 - Tuned to B - this is just what you have now on the string #10.

String #10 - Tuned to G# - on the lever where you put the "D" (8th) string you will now lower this also to a G. This is what I call the "G" Lever. Please see my You Tube videos regarding this. It really opens up a new musical space and depth for a S10 steel guitar tuning that is akin to the standard E9.
Secondly, you will want to take this also to an "A" that mirrors your top two G# strings.

All of this creates a multitude of space but just off the top of my head. You have a 5th grip on the bottom 8, 9, 10 pedals down and open. Additionally, with the "G" lever you have some very nice extended chords that come alive.

Let me know if you need any additionally info but let me know if I can further point you in the right direction.

ZK
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Bob Cox · From: Buckeye State

Check out Fred Justice's CD . He uses the 9 string to create some of the coolest happenings.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

I play a U-12 and don't have the D note on a dedicated string, so like Zane, I lower my 8th. But the note itself is so essential that I would be handicapped if I didn't have it.
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Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

I'm grabbing that 9 string dominant 7 all the time, what sort of music are you playing that has no use for it?

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

"fast runs on the low strings."

-never heard this mentioned before, care to share one?

My least used string. I understand the seventh, I dont understand anything else about the ninth string or its lowering.

Mike P why is that note so important to you ? Im reading your theory book now, its one of the better attempts at teaching theory Ive read, but I am afraid my brain is still theory resistant for the most part. Confused

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

The apparent lack of understanding about this string and its vital role in chord-building is frustrating. I know very few folks here in Forumland are going to be convinced by anything I say, but I'm sure they'd at least pay attention to Tommy White.

Listen to his beautiful playing on the E9 neck over the intro to his 'Hot Licks & Cool Tips For the E9th' video - much of that is achieved with the benefit of the ninth string, and I believe that string to be the key that unlocks so much on the tuning.

I suppose there are those that don't feel the need to find all the extended chords that can be found this way - but it's so much more than just the 7th of the chord with no pedals!!!

I swore I wouldn't respond to this thread, and here I go again. Jimmie Crawford taught me about the 9th string D and lowering it to C#. Thanks, JC - I bet they'd all listen to you if you were still with us!
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Barry Hyman · From: upstate New York, USA

Ben -- check out my long list of chords (link is above) that start on the ninth string. (Mostly they start on the D, but there are several other chords that use the ninth string as the root when it is lowered to C#.) In fact, in most E9th copedants, there are more different chords that use the D as the root than any other note, including E, A, or B!

The ninth string turns your open E chord (no pedals) into an E7 (the dominant chord that Dave Grafe is talking about). It is an important note in the A major scale (still talking about open position) and in other scales such as E mixolydian, E blues, B blues, F# minor, etc. The D string is an important note in the following chords (still in open position, but of course similar chords occur at every fret): Bm, Bm7, G, Gm, G7, and in most of the diminished chords available to E9th players.

In the old days I didn't think much about pedal steel, and would just play what I knew, with a good deal of frustration. So, like many people, I just avoided the first, second, seventh, and especially the ninth string most of the time, and while I would use them some, usually they just seemed to get in the way. Alien

But gradually I started teaching myself methodically and scientifically rather than randomly, as I had learned to do when teaching other people, and once I actively started trying to figure out why those strings were in the tuning, their usefulness became more and more apparent. The ninth chord that starts on the ninth string (A and B pedals down, B strings lowered to Bb, grip strings 9, 7, 6, 5, and 4) is worth a million just by itself! Very Happy

Music theory is fun, easy, and non-intimidating when it is taught without music notation. Most theory books require you to learn notation before you can understand the book, which makes it way too hard. But the theory of chords and scales used in popular music is quite simple when taught without notation. Blues theory is more complicated, and there are blues influences in much of what we play, but, aside from that, learning music theory is easier than learning to throw a basketball through the hoop!
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I give music lessons on several different instruments in Cambridge, NY (between Bennington, VT and Albany, NY). But my true love is pedal steel. I've been obsessed with steel since 1972; don't know anything I'd rather talk about... www.barryhyman.com

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Lower the 9th string a 1/2 tone and let it rip. Play as triplets at the pedal up position against the 1 chord. Simple but effective...
1_________________________________________________5_____________________
2_______________________________________________________________________
3_______________________________________________________5_______________
4_____________________________________________5_________________________
5____________________________________5_____5_________5__________________
6___________________________5_____5_____5_______________________________
7__________________5_____5_____5________________________________________
8_________5_____5_____5_________________________________________________
9______5-____5-__________________________________________________________
10__5____________________________________________________________________

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Ben: The 'two frets up' scale you describe is one of the things he teaches during the tape. I was more drawn to his random E9 playing for the first few minutes of the video - he doesn't explain any of it, but it's a long way from country and, for me, the best value of the whole project!

Try and listen again - check out those rich changes and the beautiful modulations he runs through; it's clear that he starts with very little in the way of a 'plan', but rather follows his musical instincts. He then goes into his introduction explaining that he only has a very basic 3+4 set up on his guitar. It's during this opening sequence in which he shows the wide scope that the 9th string provides.

And - if you're listening to me and TW in equal amounts, you have too much time on your hands!!! Very Happy

You could spend half of it far more wisely....
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Barry Hyman · From: upstate New York, USA

If there are five strings in a grip, then either choose your favorite three, or else grip four, or all five, with or without picks. I don't use picks at all so the only thing that would be tricky for me would be gripping more than five strings. Razz

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I give music lessons on several different instruments in Cambridge, NY (between Bennington, VT and Albany, NY). But my true love is pedal steel. I've been obsessed with steel since 1972; don't know anything I'd rather talk about... www.barryhyman.com

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Ben:

Please let me know if you listen to that 'intro' and tell me how it strikes you. Musically it really 'speaks' to me, far more than do the more conventional steel guitar phrasings that we hear so often, but I could well be barking up the wrong tree here.

If getting those kind of slightly advanced chord-voicings doesn't appeal to you, then perhaps there might be another tuning option that might suit you better.

I couldn't live without that string.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Barry, I can never choose the right three. Ive been playing a bit without picks lately (cause I am sometimes too lazy to put them on) tho so I will monkey arond with some bigger chord grips that way.

Roger will do. I recall that intro and remembering it being very appealing to me. Im afraid I will watch it , say to myself, "thats excellent", and then wonder how to play it tho.

Ive been playing four years, and for the past year have been really concentrating on ways to add some diversity to my endless AB pedal mashing. String 2, the vert knee lever, even the c pedal..Ive been busting my hump to learn these usages at home but have a real hard time doing anything but mashing A and B when playing live. Embarassed

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Paul,

You are soooooooooooooooooo right.

When Buddy Emmons recorded "Half a mind" with the help of Ernest Tubb Very Happy

, he used a lick that has NOW become THE most boring lick on a pedal steel guitar, IMHO.

But it was brand new then. And when Buddy uses a lick, he more often than not, forgets about it. Or put more succinctly:

"He has forgotten more than the rest of us, will ever know!"

I hear this lick often in conventions around the country; and I now hate EVERY nuance of it.

So what is that lick?

1. Ending a song say in C, picking strings 4, 5 and 6, at the 8th fret.

2. While the strings sustain, engage the B pedal, and slowly let it off.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! Mad

Do you have ANY idea what is worse?

Let ya in on a little secret.................

I catch myself doing it. And not just occasionally!

Double GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! Mad

c.
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Joe Miraglia · From: Jamestown N.Y.

I don't have to lower my 9th. string to C#,I have it tuned open C#. I have my RKR lever raise the 9th. string to D. 10,11.12 strings tunned open, B-G# E. Joe

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