Moving Open E and Open A to Fret 1:

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Moving Open-E and Open-A to Fret 1:
O.K. so I wanted to be able to play all the open E and open A+B=A chord positions with the bar at fret one...
So I tuned down a half-step.
And now open E (etc) is at Fret 1.
So I made this crazy Fret Board with all the Fret-Markers moved up one fret.
Pretty nutty huh?! Smile

But now I can float up or down to/from the first fret with the bar and play in open-E and open-A chicken-picken or whatever E9th-ee style, which is what I wanted to try.
Now when I play E and A at the 12th fret, I am really at the 13th fret, so there is no wierd overtones.
The B6th side now has open B(6th) at fret 1 too, and C6th at fret 2.
Look at the fret-markers on these fretboards (I wanted to keep my fret-marker landmarks intact).
For now I just slide the new Fret-Board into place and go for it.

Danny Bates · From: Fresno, CA. USA

Great idea Pete! Very Happy

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

If you move the tuners to your left by (scale length)*(2^(1/12)), you can use your old fret board where it always was. I don't think there is room to do that on your guitar because it is already keyless.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Thanks EB... I will definitely consider that for my next Steel build. This experiment needed to be as unintrusive as possible to the exisitng setup.

Having played with this for a day now, I gotta tell ya, I wish I woulda thought of this back when I first started playing.

I play a ton of songs that are in E, A, B, and being able to slide in and out of the open position is a totally mind expanding expierience.
C#m at fret 1 with the A pedal kicks arse!

Another unexpected result was... every single mechanical movement my Steel makes now works smoother because I'm tuned down a half step.
Every pedal and lever move feels more fluid and lively.

I added a fret marker to Fret 1 (a copy of the fret marker at fret 12), which gives me a visual target for the open E position, too.

btw, Kinkos has a self serve color copier that makes great 11x17 copies of fretboards for $1.78.

This is something I would reccomend to anybody who wants to make use of the open position chords/notes/etc... that otherwise would have to be played without a bar.

Tom Campbell · From: Houston, Texas, USA

Hi Pete

This is a fantistic idea! Is you open E fret board a Kinko's copy or did you order a spare fret board from Sierra and do an add-on piece? If it is, thats a very good copy.
I play a Sierra 12 (have 3 of them) and am thinking of experimenting with the open E.

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I play a "C6th" steel but with a regular set of strings tuned to Bb, it just sounds rounder, "stringier", more human, less shiny, less robotic... and it has the added advantage of making many songs lay out differently. However, "the open strings will always be with us"* - I mean, there are a lot of tunes in Bb, D, E, Eb, etc., whatever you choose will be right and wrong.

I have long had a variant of the "Hankey Vertical Fretboard" hooked up, and the ability to block off the intrinsic fretboard and use another with smaller dot markings.

But I find the markings, dots or lines aren't that important to me personally. I do a lot of exercises sliding large intervals, fifths, sevenths, octaves and such, just so that I don't live cowed by the "tyranny of the frets."*

And, practicing in all the keys is a fundamental technique. It may seem less important for guitars, steels etc. than for saxophones - until you need to play in F# major! And the dots are in the "wrong" places... Whoa!

"I already know how to play in all the keys, you just move it up or down" - uh-oh.

*(i just made those up) Very Happy

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Tom, I have an extra Sierra fretboard, but didn't want to chop it up for Rev 1.0 of this experiment, so that's when I got the Kinko's idea.
The fretboard I am using is a mock-up made of the real fretboard with the cut out fret markers from the copy taped in place with double sided tape (I didn't even remove the fret-board protective plastic covering, yet).
I will now make a copy of the mock up, so it will look better.

The folks at Kinkos have told me that I can go to the main Kinkos down-town, scan the fretboard into a computer, and move the frets by simply cutting and pasting them in photo-shop, then printing out the full fretboard on their big printer (11x17 isn't quite long enough for one full fretboard).

David,
I like what I have found out with this experiment so far with regard to the open position now on Fret 1.
I'm sure the other foot will drop at some point, so I am not mounting anything permanently.
Inability to make those open chords and notes sing has been a pet peeve of mine for years whenever I play in the Jam Band scene.

I too found the upright fretboard usefull, but I want to get a "clear" one, so the audience can still see me sliding the bar around!
Smile

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Thanks for these great ideas, EB!

If I do the Kinko's thing, I can also have them mount it on a foam backer which will put the strings very close to the fret-board... thereby reducing parallax error.
Idea

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

So how far off is this(besides fret markers) from the Bb tuning used by some players such as David Wright and Maurice Anderson? Red Rhodes tuned his E tuning down to Eb in the 50's, I think the reason was he didn't like the sound of the 12th fret. I often wished I could bar the first fret in E. I rarely play open strings.....
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Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Dave,
This idea is NOT tied to S12U, (Bb6th or otherwise).
It can be done on any Steel.
I don't think the Bb6th guys use a different fret-board. They play between the fret markers I think.
But yes, I now see why they say... "Bb is where it's at".

I'm an S12U guy, so now I tune down a half step, and play all the open position notes/chords at fret one.
As I said, the reason for the fret-marker switch is to retain my own comfort zone.

You could tune down to Eb and play in the Key of E on fret one on any steel, but now all your landmarks would be a fret off... not that a guy couldn't get used to that in time.

You don't even have to tune down to try it... just throw on a rhythm track and adjust the pitch so you are in E at fret one.

But the main thing for me will be playing with a group tuned to A440 (open E instruments like electric guitar/bass).
I hardly ever play open position either... that's why I finally had to move the open E/A/etc to fret one.

Tons of Grateful Dead and Allman Bros tunes are in E/A/B, etc... and I couldn't stand to be missing the open position jams any longer.
I love open-E and open-A on guitar!

So I have the tuneable split for A+B+LKV(B>Bb)=The minor chord of the A+B chord.
And G#>G=The minor chord of the open position.

Last night I played Hesitation Blues at fret one for the first time, (the repeating Am>Em thing).
Then moved to Cassidy (again at fret one):
E A E A
Em Am Em Am

Anything that goes from G to E (Don't you let your deal go down, etc...).
I now go from G down to E at the first fret!

Pride of Cucamonga - Another steel song in E, that you can now smoothly swoop down to fret one on.

Scarlet Begonias is in B. The first line of each verse is in E and it toggles on an A also (I can now play the E/A at the first fret if i feel like it).

There's a ton of 'em but I've only been at it for one day with this new idea.

This takes nothing away from your normal bag o' tricks, and can be tried out easily without messing anything up mechanically.
'Just trying to open up some real-estate that was going unused!
Fun Stuff!!! Cool

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

Keep us posted on how it works out. I probably should have done this years ago too, being a rock player myself. I was toying with the idea of a steel in D but moving the fret marker idea wouldn't work as good. I may still try it on my Fender. Great ideas as always Pete! Smile

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Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps

David Griffin · From: Jimmy Creek,Arkansas via Cowtown, USA

Pete & I exchanged PMs about this. I had a similar idea except I would tune down to D9th.It started out as a way to try to get lower notes on a 10str E9th tuning. I already drop my low B to A on my 3rd pedal. I was visiting the Rains steel factory in July & Junior Knight & of course Carp was there. I told them my idea & they thought I was crazy! Mr. Green

(true,I know!) They said why do you need to change the fretboard? My reason was because I play steel w/ a guitar strapped on w/ an A/B box & switch back & forth on the fly.Can you imagine trying to transpose on the fly? It DON"T work. I had the same idea as Pete,just a half step lower. Also, I plan on having the first 2 fret "spaces" white(my fretboard is black) w/ a wider red fretmarker at fret 2(to indicate where E is). And of course move all the postion markers up 2 frets. My reason for this is because it's really disorienting to have all that "blank space" down at the beginning of the fretboard. I want to thank Pete for the idea of photocopying the fretboard (AND the whole idea in general. Made me not feel so alone! Very Happy

).Great idea & saved me a lot of experimenting. Further reasons for tuning to D9th are:Your "open" chords are in a more "usable" key (D & G w/ pedals down). I don't care much for using the open postion on PSG either,but there are times when it's very useful. Also,pedals down gives you an open G tuning that works great for open string "dobro" licks in the most "useful" key. Another reason is: It's easier to get a clean sound at fret 2 rather than fret 1 because you don't have to press down as hard. I have a Rus-Ler 12 string Universal on it's way next month & I plan to try Jeff Newmans Uni tuning on it,just tuned down a step.(sorry,Zane! Smile

) Gary Carpenter told me I would have to increase the string gauges & adjust the mechanism for it to work. But since the setup on the Rus-Ler will have to be changed anyway I might as well try it. I'll keep you posted on how it works out. If anybody else has any more ideas on this please give us your thoughts! Thanx>>>dg
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Roger Guyett · From: San Francisco, Ca.

Im a saxophone player who doubles on pedal steel, and us horn players know how to constantly transpose across different keys. A tenor sax is a Bb instrument - in other words if the band is in the key of C, youre in D....a bartione sax is in Eb - so if the band is in C, Im in A...
OK, so Im asking why change the fretboard ? Why dont you just play everything 1/2 tone higher....if the bands in E, you say to yourself ok, Im in F and so on.

I havent read all the posts here so Im sure theres all sorts of reasons !
Im sure changing the fretboard has a lot of benefits - but I thought I'd throw that out there.

Jimmy Lewis · From: Harrisonburg, Louisiana, USA

Roger I played like you are talking about for about 3 years. I have played guitar in a band where the keyboard played did a lot of songs in horn keys so I had to learn to tranpose. Boy that really helped me a lot.

Greg Wisecup · From: Troy, Ohio

Great idea Pete. Just getting rid of the overtones at 12 is plenty of reason to change.
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Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Roger Guyett · From: San Francisco, Ca.

Bo Legg · Posted 29 Sep 2010 9:00 am

Great idea but it just don't sound right when you tell folks your playing on the "E flat 9th neck".
Folks will be asking if you play a flat coped', flat Emmons or flat Day or for short "are you playing flat"? Cool

Stan Schober · From: Cahokia, Illinois, USA

David Griffin · From: Jimmy Creek,Arkansas via Cowtown, USA

Well,I tried tuning my new 12 string Uni E9/B6 down a WHOLE step & I don't think it's going to work. Reason being: The low B tuned down to A just gets too "floppy",especially when you hit the "boo wah" pedal. It just turns to spagetti! I just don't want to give up that drop.Heck,that's half the fun of having a 12 str. uni. I know it's not used that much,but when you need it there is nothing else is like it. I may still try tuning down just a half step like Pete,but I hate to give up the open strings.
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