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Topic: Steel Wood |
Paul DiMaggio
From:
Fort Nelson, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 21 Oct 2010 11:45 am |
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Has anyone ever used Trembling Aspen [populus tremuloides] for a lap steel? I have a well seasoned piece of rough cut 2"x 6". I'm not intending to build anything real fancy, wood and I are not the best of buddies, more along the lines of a board with strings.
My main concern is for the headstock. If it would stand a pan type [like Bob Allen builds] or slotted or a standard guitar type. It is classified as a hardwood but around here it was used mainly in OSB and plywood. |
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Paul Crawford
From:
Orlando, Fl
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Posted 21 Oct 2010 1:49 pm
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| I wouldn't think Aspen is dense enough to make a good guitar. Aspen runs around 26 lbs/cu.ft. which is down just over Cedar (23). The more traditional woods run considerably higher: Hard Maple (47), Walnut (43), Mahogany (40 - 53). Even Cabinet grade Southern Yellow Pine runs up to 37 or so. If you want to play with some hardwoods on the cheap, you might try picking up some Ipe. They use it a lot for decking. You could pick up a nice 2 x 10 blank for about $10 a running foot. Seriously hard stuff, (75 pcf.) It's literally so hard it carries a Class A fire rating, (same as Concrete or Steel.) It does kind of eat your tools so resharpen often and take your time. |
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 21 Oct 2010 4:41 pm
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Aspen and poplar are pretty much the same. I know Bob Allen uses this and has made some very pretty guitars. Heads up tho... its a soft wood, so every time you drop your bar there will probably be a small ding left behind! That said, its an attractive wood.
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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Gary Stevenson
From:
Northern New York,USA
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Posted 21 Oct 2010 5:25 pm
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| And remember Leo Fender used pine for his first prototype and I have used pine with success.I don't think it being softer will ruin its sound. PLUS its much easier to work with if this is your first build.Look up the book "how to build a lap Steel".It covers all the bases. |
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Larry Phleger
From:
DuBois, PA
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Posted 22 Oct 2010 7:43 am
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| I'm planning to build a double 10 using cherry. Has anyone used cherry? if so, how did it work? |
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Steve Waltz
From:
USA
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Posted 22 Oct 2010 7:57 am steel builder website
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You might want to try this group of steel builders and see what has been going on. I think it is mostly SGF guys but it sticks to building.
http://steelguitarbuilder.com/forum/index.php |
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Ron Yarboro
From:
USA
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Posted 22 Oct 2010 8:02 am
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Hi Paul,
I used poplar on the guitar posted below. I'm not sure If It's Aspen or not.
According to what I've read on Poplar It is a hardwood because It comes from a deciduous broad leaved tree (which you know), but is not as dense as other hardwoods. The lap steel I built from It sounds fine. Even unplugged the guitar is very resonate and responsive. I will definitely build with It again. From experience I found that before a finish is applied the boards are prone to warping, so I now store the boards in a humidity controlled closet positioned upright leaned against the wall so that air can circulate around the boards evenly.
I say go for It. Sorry for the bad photo.
R.Y.
Last edited by Ron Yarboro on 22 Oct 2010 9:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Paul Crawford
From:
Orlando, Fl
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Posted 22 Oct 2010 9:43 am
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Aspen is not poplar, (although it's hard to tell a home center that.) Poplar, depending on the slice and how you dry it, can have a density of 31 pcf and due to its long grain is very stable. Most pines are somewhere in the mid 30s as well. The biggest difference between these woods and Aspen is these are wet woods and can vary a lot depending on how you dry them.
Woodworkers use Aspen a lot for carvings since it doesn't contain resin so its very stable. Aspen is also great for turning bowls since it doesn't splitter or change the taste of foods. It does take screws and glue well but can be kind of brittle. If you were to cut slim surfaces in it such as pan key heads, then put string tension across it, I'd expect it to snap rather than bend like a pine or poplar, so leave a lot of beef around your holes. Keep your router bits sharp or it will tear out. Also keep you edges soft and rounded and sand them with a fine grit to get rid of the fuzzies. If you are planning to stain it, put a good sealer on it first because it gets blotchy and uneven. Since it's so dry it will take paint very well. |
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Paul DiMaggio
From:
Fort Nelson, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 22 Oct 2010 11:05 am
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Ron; Nice job.Did you use a router or dado for the slotted headstock?What kind of paint did you use?
Paul; Aspen is a poplar.Populus is the latin prefix for all the poplars,blacks, balsam, cottonwood,alba, aspen etc.
I'm going to try it anyway,the piece I have is bone dry and was in a bundle for at least 4 years so hopefully it has warped all it is going to.
My idea is to build something simple with adding necks in mind. |
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 22 Oct 2010 11:41 am
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Yeah, its a common misconception that aspen and poplar are different. You can throw cottonwood in that pile too. Just another variant of poplar, which is a soft wood.
I should also mention that poplar cracks easily. Make sure you find yourself a nicely kilned piece. I am sure you have.
_________________
If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
___________________________________________
1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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Ron Yarboro
From:
USA
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Posted 22 Oct 2010 11:58 am
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| Paul DiMaggio wrote: |
Ron; Nice job.Did you use a router or dado for the slotted headstock?What kind of paint did you use?
Paul; Aspen is a poplar.Populus is the latin prefix for all the poplars,blacks, balsam, cottonwood,alba, aspen etc.
I'm going to try it anyway,the piece I have is bone dry and was in a bundle for at least 4 years so hopefully it has warped all it is going to.
My idea is to build something simple with adding necks in mind. |
Hi Paul,
I'm glad you like it. Thanks. Regarding the peghead slots, I first used a 1/2" forstner bit to start the slots. I drilled all the way through on opposite ends.
I then used a jig saw to hog out the middle and to get close so I could use the router. Next, I used the router with a pattern following bit and a template.
Click on the first link below for an excellent thread over at project guitar where I asked a lot of questions that Tom Pettingil and others patiently answered.
I couldn't have pulled It off with out Tom and the other members help.
I'm not to crazy about paint fumes, so I farmed out the paint job which is nitro, Pelham Blue. I'll probably go with Tru-Oil on the next one to avoid paying someone to finish It. Good luck on your project. Links below. R.Y.
http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=42641&st=0
For slotting the peghead this thread at the OLF helped a lot. Particularly Joe Sustaire's post.
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=23409&p=319912&hilit=slotted+peghead+on+steel+strings#p319912
Last edited by Ron Yarboro on 29 Oct 2010 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Paul Crawford
From:
Orlando, Fl
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Posted 22 Oct 2010 3:41 pm
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Paul: Respectfully, you are referring to the scientific genus Populus. When woodworkers speak of Poplar, we're speaking of Liriodendron tulipifera, or Tulip poplar. The only reason I bring it up is if you reference any of the woodworking sites for "poplar" you'll get different properties and recommendations than you will for Aspen. The two woods work a little differently and are used for different things in the shop.
Different worlds speaking different languages. Sorry for the confusion.  |
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Kekoa Blanchet
From:
Kaua'i
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Posted 23 Oct 2010 2:50 am
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| Paul Crawford wrote: |
| If you want to play with some hardwoods on the cheap, you might try picking up some Ipe. |
I'd noticed that a piece of leftover ipe decking had a really nice ring to it, and wondered if it would work for a steel guitar. Has anyone tried it?
And then there's ironwood. Here on Kaua'i, it's considered a junk tree, but the wood is incredibly dense. Anybody ever build an ironwood guitar? |
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Joerg Schubert
From:
Hagen, Germany
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Posted 23 Oct 2010 10:26 am
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Hi,
I don't know if a steel guitar was ever build from Pao Ferro (iron wood) but I do know for shure that Mr.Emmett Chapman, the inventor of the Chapman Stick, used Pao Ferro for the first runs of his Chapman Sticks. Those sticks didn't have a trusrod because the wood was so stable. In a documentray about Cuba I saw that they sometimes used Pao Ferro as flagging in their capital city.
I onced asked Emmett why he stopped using Pao Ferro and he told me that the endurance of the tools used was very bad because that wood is so incredible hard.
Joerg |
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