| Author |
Topic: Updated: MSA 12 copedent comparison. |
Mike Davidson
From:
New Mexico, USA
|
Posted 6 Oct 2010 3:18 am |
|
On the top is how the E9 neck on this MSA D-12 I got last week is set up. I found an old original owners manual on eBay. On the bottom is how the manual defines a Standard D-12 E9 setup w/8&4. I put in red the differences.
Should I stick with whats on top? Anything real odd or special about either. Should I try to achieve the bottom setup?
Last edited by Mike Davidson on 7 Oct 2010 5:13 pm; edited 3 times in total |
|
|
 |
Billy Carr
From:
Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 6 Oct 2010 4:40 am set up
|
|
| Looks like an Extended E9th tuning with the low G# & E strings to me. I've used this set up on several guitars. Just adds some extra lows to chord phrasings. |
|
|
|
Mike Davidson
From:
New Mexico, USA
|
Posted 6 Oct 2010 4:56 am
|
|
Mainly wondering about which strings the pedals & levers are controlling and to what degree. Such as the C4 on my setup shows as C4 and C5 in the manual. Controlling 2 strings. Or like LKL controls string 8 1/2 step on mine but string 1 in the manual.
It's hard to ask the right question when you don't know what you're talking about but should I try to return my setup to what is suggested in the owners manual or go with it as it is? |
|
|
|
Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
|
Posted 6 Oct 2010 6:26 am
|
|
Mike...of course there's a lot of music on your set up is you have it now, but the factory copedant is probably closer to what is considered to be more "standard". I'd recommend trying to get it back to that setup sometime in the future.
Having the E strings(4& 8 ) both raise and lower a half step is pretty important. Many of the players that have those on the right knee do it that way because they started on early MSA's, which is perfectly fine. Most are set up with either one or both of the E changes on the left knee.
You're probably gonna have to get some parts to get it back to factory specs. Jim Palenscar from here on the Forum might have what you need. |
|
|
|
Joseph Carlson
From:
Grass Valley, California, USA
|
|
|
|
b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
|
Posted 6 Oct 2010 7:28 am
|
|
The personalized copedent that's on the guitar right now isn't very good, IMHO. The factory copedent is much better, but it's still a bit antiquated. Here's the minimum standard changes I recommend for the front neck of your D-12:
| Tab: |
A B C LKL LKR RKL RKR
F#
D# -D
G# +A
E +F# +F -D#
B +C# +C#
G# +A
F#
E +F -D#
D
B +C#
G# +A
E |
I didn't fill in LKR because there are a lot of different opinions about that. The main points here are that the C pedal must raise both the 4th and the 5th strings, and that having the F lever on LKL is widely accepted for ergonomic reasons. Also, raising the low G# to A is standard practice.
People will suggest a lot of additional changes, but this will get you started on the right track. Don't try to play that guitar the way it's set up now - it's just plain wrong for a beginner.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video
Last edited by b0b on 6 Oct 2010 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
|
Posted 6 Oct 2010 7:31 am
|
|
That's for a single neck guitar. Most of those pedals don't make sense on a D-12, where the back neck has the C6th changes.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
|
|
|
Bobby Bowman
From:
Cypress, Texas, USA, R.I.P.
|
Posted 6 Oct 2010 8:44 am "C" Pedal?
|
|
B0b,
I think you mean strings 4 and 5 instead of strings 5 and 6.
BB 
_________________
If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!
http://www.bobbybowman.com |
|
|
|
b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
|
Posted 6 Oct 2010 9:55 am Re: "C" Pedal?
|
|
| Bobby Bowman wrote: |
B0b,
I think you mean strings 4 and 5 instead of strings 5 and 6.
BB |
Correct, and corrected.  |
|
|
|
Mike Davidson
From:
New Mexico, USA
|
Posted 6 Oct 2010 4:23 pm
|
|
Dog gone it. That's what I started being afraid of. Now Bob you say back neck has C6th changes. This guitar the neck farthest from me is the E9 neck the one closest to me is C6th neck. It's actually converted to a 10 string and is tuned to A6.
The book calls the E9 neck Top Neck with C6 being Bottom Neck. Now am I even more messed up? The guy I bought this from is an awesome steel player so I am kind of puzzled. I guess this was a very customized personalized setup. |
|
|
|
Nathan Sarver
From:
Washington State, USA
|
Posted 6 Oct 2010 5:16 pm
|
|
| Mike Davidson wrote: |
| the neck farthest from me is the E9 neck the one closest to me is C6th neck. |
The back neck refers to the neck closest to you. The front of the guitar is considered to be the side with the logo that the audience sees. Your manual is probably using "top" and "bottom" in the same sense as you would refer to the higher pitched strings on your guitar as the "top strings." Laying flat, the top strings are farther from you than the bottom strings. |
|
|
|
Mike Davidson
From:
New Mexico, USA
|
Posted 6 Oct 2010 6:25 pm
|
|
Regarding the setup B0b recommended:
I made a mistake on B-11. It is intact.
I have an extra arm and rod that looks like I can make LKL-4 work.
I think I can move RNR-5 to RNR-2
Which would leave me trying to get parts for C-5 |
|
|
|
Mike Davidson
From:
New Mexico, USA
|
Posted 7 Oct 2010 5:12 pm
|
|
I was able to install one rod I had so LKL now raises 4/8.
This weekend I will move the parts from B11 to C5 (temporarily until I can find another rod setup). The setup will then look like this: How does this look and what can I then do to improve.
 |
|
|
|
b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
|
Posted 7 Oct 2010 6:18 pm
|
|
That looks very usable to me, Mike. After you've been playing for a while you'll probably get some ideas, but this should keep you busy and on the right track for a couple of years.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
|
|
|
Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
|
Posted 10 Oct 2010 7:09 am
|
|
Mike, on your LKR, I'd add the lowering of the 9th string D to C# which is a very useful change and one I couldn't live without (I actually tune my 9th to C# and raise it to D). I use the C# note a lot with my E's lowered........JH in Va.
_________________
Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!! |
|
|
|
Mike Davidson
From:
New Mexico, USA
|
Posted 10 Oct 2010 12:27 pm
|
|
Spent the better part of the weekend working on the steel. I finally got it done. I couldn't even straighten my back up last night. Mostly took so long cuz' I don't know what I'm doing. I had troubles with 1/2 steps raising too much and whole steps being flat but I finally got everything shifted around and put on a new set of strings. Now I know why I play six-string...lol.
Thank you for the suggestions and help. Thanks Jerry for the suggestion. I'm going to have to get some more parts before any more mods. Thanks to all for the help. I can see that this is going to be a multi phase project and that this was just phase one. |
|
|
|
