Interview with Jerry Kennedy

Frank Freniere · From: The First Coast

The following is a transcript of a phone interview with Jerry Kennedy, the legendary Nashville session guitarist/producer/record label president on 8/26/10.

FF: I wanted to ask you a few questions about a Roger Miller album you produced back in the day, “A Trip In The Country.” 10,000 Forum members rarely agree on anything but there is general consensus that Buddy Emmons is the greatest steel guitar player ever, and many consider "Trip" one of the finest steel records ever made. And for that we thank you!

JK: I appreciate you saying that and I hope I can help you. You know, it was a long time ago and a lot of music has gone down since…

FF: Is it true you’ve seen both Hank Sr. AND Elvis Presley live in concert?

JK: Yes, I guess I am one of the fortunate few that have seen both Hank Sr. and Elvis perform. The Hank thing really made an impression on me ‘cause I was still a kid and really enjoyed getting to see him. And although he was under the influence pretty bad the night I saw him, it was still a thrill to get to see him.

FF: You made your reputation at first as a session guitarist and dobro player. Ever hunker down behind the pedal steel and have a go at it?

JK: I’d Just goof around with the steel guitar in the studio between takes, mostly on Pete Drake’s steel. Pete and I worked a lot of dates together and he would get up and go somewhere to the restroom or whatever and I would slide in his chair. It was the most frustrating thing I’ve ever tried to do. So I did not get very far at all, other than just raking across the strings.

FF: A lot of the songs on “Trip” had already been recorded by other artists. In fact, Allmusic.com basically pans “Trip,” calling it a “dubious re-recording project.” What is your take?

JK: Roger was under contract to Mercury at that time and, to be honest with you, I think what had happened was Roger had dried up songwriting-wise. So we decided to go back into his catalog and get some of those songs and do a country album, a straight country album. So that’s where that idea came from: it was just for the sake of having Roger product. A lot of the songs were re-makes. But I thought it was good package, I can remember that much, I thought we had something to be proud of.

FF: Did you choose the musicians for the album?

JK: I did, I always lined up the pickers to play on a project and helped select the songs. That was part of what an “A&R guy” did back then. “Producer” is what they call ‘em now. Yeah, I was involved with selecting the players and everything. The way that Buddy probably got on this - since I did not use him much – I’ll bet Roger asked for him. I can’t remember that specifically but I’ll bet that was it. Roger and Buddy were real friends and of course I had absolutely no objections, with the reputation that Buddy had.

FF: So you knew Buddy?

JK: Oh yeah, I had done sessions on guitar with him. We were both hired and we’d show up for the session not knowing that we were going to be paired up. You know, that was the way sessions were done back then. We used to do 3 or 4 of those a day. It was a lot of fun.

I’ll tell you one of the biggest kicks I ever got was when I did a Time-Life package with Floyd Cramer. Buddy came in and played on an old Ernest Tubb song and we had a big time. Because those two guys really knew each well, Floyd and Buddy, and it was an afternoon that I really did enjoy from a producer’s standpoint. Watching those two guys communicate back and forth – it was an overdub, I remember that – it was some fun.

FF: Some would say the ‘60’s - ‘70’s were the “Golden Age of Country Music.”

JK: I think so, too. It was a time that… when I think about the present-day music business and I want to talk about something with my sons or whatever, those are the times I go back to compare.

FF: What’s really striking – and wonderful - about “Trip” is that the steel is always up in the mix, instead of doing a verse and taking the rest of the song off. The steel is featured in a way that you just don’t hear very often.

JK: Believe me, that was not intentional. That’s the way it turned out. That’s just something that probably happened and that’s the way it was.

FF: Was Buddy the bandleader or arranger on the sessions?

JK: He would not have been the leader of the session. That would probably have been Bob Moore [bass]. They were all head arrangements, in other words these were arrangements that we came up with right there in studio. If we were a little steel-heavy, it was not because I intended for it to be that way. But if it’s pleasing to you, then that’s great. I have not heard the album probably since we recorded it.

FF: The thing about “Trip” for me is not only the steel but the quality of the songs and Roger’s voice.

JK: Those were great songs, I do remember that much. Roger was a fantastic writer. He was probably one of the best songwriters that ever came through Nashville. I thought he was a good singer, too.

FF: So how did Buddy end up with the “A-Team” on this occasion?

JK: I think Roger suggested we get Buddy so I had him called in for the sessions – that’s more than likely the way that happened. Like I said, if it had been left up to me I would have used one of the players I was more familiar with.

FF: You were a member of the “A-Team” on guitar, weren’t you?

JK: I have been honored in that respect but I don’t consider myself part of it because I thought the “A-Team” was a group of players that were involved with session work before I got to town. From the time I arrived in Nashville I was immediately kind of thrown in with them, so some people have considered me that way. I do not myself. Now, Buddy, what a phenomenal player he was. You asked me did I tell Buddy what to play or something like that. I would never presume to tell Buddy Emmons what to play. He would come up with what he did and maybe at our suggestion, we would say “try something else” but never “here’s exactly what I want you to do.” That’s never happened with me and any of the musicians that I used while I was producing records. They all had the freedom to come up with what they wanted.

FF: Was there any overdubbing or was everyone basically together, recording in real time?

JK: If we did any punching in and out, it would have been Roger. The musicians are that good, they didn’t need to punch in or out. On occasion that would be something we might do but I don’t remember doing that here. Roger would do harmony with himself or he might blow a line here or there but that’s it.

FF: Were your bosses at Mercury happy with the finished product?

JK: We would not have put it out if they weren’t happy. I was happy with it because we turned it in!

FF: How long did it take to record the album?

JK: I’ll bet you that project was done in 4 or 5 sessions. I’m not sure what the time frame was. Maybe they were done over 4-5 days in a row – I can’t remember. The tapes would have been mixed fairly quickly after we did it. That was during a time where we did an awful lot of product with a lot of different artists and we didn’t let something lay around, waiting to finish it. We’d get right on it and take care of business quickly.

FF: Do you think the label might consider re-releasing “Trip” or maybe leasing the rights to someone like Bear Family records? The vinyl LP has long been out of print and the only place I could find these songs was in a 1991 Greatest Hits CD that is also out of print.

JK: Really? Well, after I left Mercury in 1984, I had very little contact with any of the product they released. Unless it was something very special, they did not put me on a mailing list or send me copies of things like that. So I was unaware they had released the CD. Re-released, I mean. I know Richard [Weize], the guy that owns Bear, he’s a good guy and he’s a real fan of all the music of that period we’re talking about.

FF: Jerry, it’s been a privilege to talk with you and thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

JK: Well, if you ever talk to Buddy, you let him know what a big fan I am of his.

Thanks to FoBro Graham for the picture of the back of the "Trip" LP.

Steve Hinson · From: Hendersonville Tn USA

Wasn't Buddy playing bass with Roger at the time this record was made?
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robert kramer · From: Nashville TN

Great interview. Emmons was on Roger's band 1968-1974. "Someday Soon" (BE's first LA session after moving to California) is 1969. I will post session details on "A Trip in The Country" (1970) next week. Here is a short review of the Country Music Hall of Fame's "Nashville Cats" 2/16/08 interview with Jerry Kennedy:

http://www.countrymusichalloffame.org/past-programs/view/102?month=02&day=16&year=2008

Joachim Kettner · From: Germany

Great interview. Thanks.

Frank Freniere · From: The First Coast

Thanks, guys - Jerry is a real gentleman.

Can't wait to see the session info, Bob: call me crazy but I hear a flute or something like it in the instrumental bridge of "Don't We All Have The Right." It's probably Buddy...

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

Frank,that was extremely cool of you to do that! Winking

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Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952.

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

yeah....neato!

interesting to hear how it came about kind of like no big deal..roger needs product. then, by changing things up slightly, like bringing in buddy rather than weldon or whoever,it just lent a slightly less 'factory job' vibe to it. you know with buddy and roger in the room there was some incredible joking around going on.

the steel is some of buddy's rawest tone that i've heard. i love it.

being someone who religiously checked out album credits, jerry's productions often impressed me as toned down countrypolitan slick products...sometimes overproduced with strings, etc. this is a real honkytonker's dream.

Michael Lee Allen · From: Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois

Removed.
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Joachim Kettner · From: Germany

http://www.rogermiller.com/jukebox.html#

robert kramer · From: Nashville TN

“A Trip in the Country” (Mercury SR 61297)
June 11-25, 1970 - Mercury Custom Recording Studios – Nashville TN
Producer: Jerry Kennedy

ROGER MILLER: vocals; HAROLD RAY BRADLEY: guitar; RAY Q. EDENTON: guitar; CHARLES R. ‘Charlie’ McCOY: guitar; JERRY “Chip Young” STEMBRIDGE: guitar; HARGUS M. ‘Pig’ ROBBINS: piano; BOB L. MOORE: bass; MURRAY M. ‘Buddy’ HARMON, JR.: drums; BUDDY GENE EMMONS: steel guitar; THOMAS LEE ‘Tommy’ JACKSON: fiddle; NORMAN KEITH ‘Buddy’ SPICHER: fiddle

There appears to be no unissued outtakes listed from these sessions. Two additional songs were recorded at these sessions that didn’t appear on “A Trip in the Country.” They are “South” and “Tomorrow Night in Baltimore.” Both are pop productions with strings but no steel guitar. (“South” also has horns) Both recordings are available on iTunes.

“Invitation to the Blues” backed by “That’s The Way I Feel” was released on 45 RPM (Mercury SR61361) but did not chart. Only one song from “A Trip in the Country” appeared on the charts. “Don’t We All Have the Right” was issued on the B side of “South” (Mercury 73102- 45 RPM) peaking at #15 on 8/29/70. This does not - in any way - diminished the work of Kennedy, Roger Miller, Buddy Emmons and the “A” team, the greatness of this music or its lasting importance to pedal steel players and the history of the steel guitar.

5 songs from “A Trip in the Country” are available on iTunes: Roger Miller “King of the Road - The Genius of Roger Miller” (3 Disc Box Set)

Disc Three:
13. Invitation to the Blues
14. Tall, Tall Tress
15. Don’t We All Have the Right
16. That’s The Way I Feel
17. Half a Mind

In 1972 & ’73, Jerry Kennedy produced two more LP’s essential for pedal steel players: Johnny Rodriquez’s: “Introducing Johnny Rodriguez” and “All I Ever Meant to Do Was Sing.” Both LP’s featured Pete Drake in his prime and they remain an encyclopedia of PD’s style. These two LP’s yielded three #1’s: “You Always Come back to Hurting Me’ “Ridin’ My Thumb to Mexico,” “That’s the Way Love Goes.”

“Introducing Johnny Rodriguez” (Mercury SR-61378)
Sept 11, 1972 - Nov 21 & Jan 16, 1973 - Mercury Custom Recording Studios - Nashville, TN
Producer: Jerry Kennedy

“All I Ever Meant To Do Was Sing” (Mercury SR- SRM-1-686)
May 16-17 & July 10-11, 1973 - Mercury Custom Recording Studios - Nashville, TN
Producer: Jerry Kennedy

JOHNNY RODRIGUEZ: vocals; HAROLD RAY BRADLEY: guitar; RAY Q. EDENTON: guitar; JERRY GLENN KENNEDY: guitar; JERRY W. SHOOK: guitar; JERRY “Chip Young” STEMBRIDGE: guitar; HARGUS M. ‘Pig’ ROBBINS: piano; BOB L. MOORE: bass; JERRY K. CARRIGAN: drums (1st LP); MURRAY M. ‘Buddy’ HARMON, JR.: drums (2nd LP); PETE RODIS DRAKE: steel guitar; JOHNNY GIMBLE: fiddle; NORMAN KEITH ‘Buddy’ SPICHER: fiddle

The following songs are available on iTunes:

2. That’s The Way Love Goes
3. You Always Come Back (To Hurting Me)

All three LP’s listed the musicians on the back cover - possibly among the first Country Albums to do this.

Frank Freniere · From: The First Coast

Excellent information - thanks, Bob.

"Ridin' My Thumb To Mexico" is a staple on satellite radio.

robert kramer · From: Nashville TN

The steel is mixed way back on "Ridin' My Thumb" so I didn't recommend to download it on iTunes. However, that is Jerry Kennedy playing the gut string parts. It's astounding the number of well known guitar parts Jerry Kennedy played on hit records. When I get a chance I will research them and list them here.

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