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Topic: ? about suspended chords |
Roy McKinney
From:
Ontario, OR
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Posted 17 Sep 2010 1:06 pm |
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What is a Csus chord and how would you make it?
What is the purpose of it?
The chord progression I am in is:
Key of F going from a Eb to an F back to Eb then to a C and then a Csus.
Or should I just ignor it?
Thanks |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 17 Sep 2010 1:38 pm
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Sus4 chords are the bane of the bandstand. They clash with anybody that is playing the major third of that chord. Just like Major 7ths, they cause a half step clash. If you are not playing with any other instruments, have at it.
It is a note you can play to start a phrase IF you don't know whether the upcming chord is a I, IV, or V, as it fits them. As a played chord though, like I said, if nobody else is playing the same octave third they tweak your teeth..
The best notes to play against an uncertain melody or even most chords if you are uncertain are the ninth or the sixth. Seventh notes or chords are the second most irritating if someone else is playing a 6th chord or note in a pentatonic scale.
JHMO and Exp.
Gotta head to the Gateway Elks for my weekly gig. Long week at the salt mines too..
EJL/HFLE |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2010 2:10 pm
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A sus chord has a suspended 3rd, so a Csus would be, C, F, G and perhaps Bb. One way of analyzing it would be that it is a "G7" going to a C7 if you are going to a C7.
Where the sus chords are used the most, is when you want to keep the music "neutral", like in film scoring when the music has to "hang" over a cue. They do this because they don't define an actual tonic. |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2010 3:08 pm
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| Actually I love the sus chords (easily played at the open position using just the B pedal) because when I'm not sure where the band is (ie.- "I'm lost")- I can hang on the sus chord of the 1 and it generally fits but sounds cool as it has elements of the 4 and 5 in it so is a nice chameleon chord. |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 17 Sep 2010 3:19 pm
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Actually, I agree with the sus4 note.
Try this, lay the sus4 chord on the first beat of the measure with other instruments good and strong. Let it ring. Do it at the I, IV and V.
If it sounds good....
Kind of like the old rockabilly 13th, that sounds good only as a cliche...
It "implies" the 4 chord or the root of the IV chord or the dom7th of the V.
It's not a bad passing note, but best by itself, or a passing note.
Gotta go listen to and play against way too many sus4s here in an hour or so... All night.
EJL |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2010 3:36 pm
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| prdon my ignorance on theory but isnt this chord used in rock alot, bouncing back and forth betwen the sus4 and the I? Pinball Wizard or Squeezebox by the Who for example? |
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2010 7:57 pm
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| The first 4 or 8 bars of "Peaceful Easy Feeling" wouldn't sound the same without those suspended chords. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 17 Sep 2010 10:00 pm
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| Ben Jones wrote: |
| prdon my ignorance on theory but isnt this chord used in rock alot, bouncing back and forth betwen the sus4 and the I? Pinball Wizard or Squeezebox by the Who for example? |
That's correct.
The easiest way to make a C sus is to place the bar on the 8th fret and hit the B pedal.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2010 10:55 pm
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If your progression says Csus, I wouldn't ignore it - that would sound just as bad as playing it when no one else is, as Eric W mentions.
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Les Green
From:
Jefferson City, MO, R.I.P.
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Posted 18 Sep 2010 5:39 am
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I always thought they were called 'suspicious' or 'suspected chords', not to be confused with demented chords. 
_________________
Les Green
73 MSA D10 8&4, 74 MSA S10 3&5, Legrande II 8&9, Fender Squier 6 string, Genesis III, Peavey 1000 |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 18 Sep 2010 5:54 am
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
| Ben Jones wrote: |
| prdon my ignorance on theory but isnt this chord used in rock alot, bouncing back and forth betwen the sus4 and the I? Pinball Wizard or Squeezebox by the Who for example? |
That's correct.
The easiest way to make a C sus is to place the bar on the 8th fret and hit the B pedal. |
Hmmm..i never play one of those on pedal steel. i wonder why? maybe its a strummy thing? |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 18 Sep 2010 6:43 am
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| Quote: |
| Sus4 chords are the bane of the bandstand. |
| Quote: |
| Gotta go listen to and play against way too many sus4s here in an hour or so... All night. |
| Quote: |
| Hmmm..i never play one of those on pedal steel. i wonder why? maybe its a strummy thing? |
Would somebody explain the (musical) logic behind any of these quotes?  |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 18 Sep 2010 6:53 am
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No.
EJL |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 18 Sep 2010 6:58 am
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Figured as much.  |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 18 Sep 2010 7:22 am
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I'm dismayed at how rude people can be when asked a straightforward music theory question. 
| Quote: |
| What is a Csus chord and how would you make it? |
The C major chord contains 3 notes: C E G. Csus is actually Csus4. It raises the E to F, so the notes are C F G. We can get it on E9th pedal steel at the 8th fret with the "B" pedal.
| Quote: |
What is the purpose of it?
The chord progression I am in is:
Key of F going from a Eb to an F back to Eb then to a C and then a Csus. |
Composers often use a Vsus4 when they don't want the 7th tone of the scale to be heard. In this case, the progression in F is using a b7 chord (Eb), and the melody probably uses the F mixolydian scale (which flats the 7th tone E to Eb). Using a Csus for the V chord keeps you from playing a non-scale note (E).
| Quote: |
| Or should I just ignore it? |
If you ignore it and everyone else is playing it, you'll sound like a hack. You'll be playing a note that sounds like it's in the wrong key. If the composer wanted it to be optional, he'd have written C11.
_________________
-πππ- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video
Last edited by b0b on 18 Sep 2010 7:30 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 18 Sep 2010 7:22 am
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I think of sus's as temporary tension builders. I think the pedal steel is a natural instrument for sus chords.
I've never heard an example where a sus2 or 4 sounds out of balance in the context of written work.
I try to play whatever is in the song and whatever the charts call for. I can't understand why anyone would choose to arbitrarily dismiss a change unless they just don't know how to make it. |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 18 Sep 2010 8:57 am
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| Barry Blackwood wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Sus4 chords are the bane of the bandstand. |
| Quote: |
| Gotta go listen to and play against way too many sus4s here in an hour or so... All night. |
| Quote: |
| Hmmm..i never play one of those on pedal steel. i wonder why? maybe its a strummy thing? |
Would somebody explain the (musical) logic behind any of these quotes? |
Erics quotes are inexplicable as always  . Mine tho, should be self explanataory. On guitar the sus4 is often used when strumming, bouncing off the I chord. On psg with an E9th copedant, theres not alot of strumming going on. Perhaps this is why I never use the sus4 on pedal steel whereas on gutar its common? geez. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 18 Sep 2010 9:13 am
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What does strumming have to do what kind of chord you're making?
What is the problem with picking strings 4,5, and 6 and stepping on the B pedal?
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 18 Sep 2010 9:52 am
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| Ben, what Mike said .... |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 18 Sep 2010 9:56 am
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i would not disregard the Sus4 if it's in the chart Roy
ok if in doubt lay out & come back next week havin' learned it
it's a simple & fun chord
the sus4 has the 4th tone instead of the 3rd
the sus4 & the 11th chords have been mainstay chords in rock & Pop for decades now
the 11 has the same 4th but an octave higher & the dom7 in the middle
for those of us who learned how to play guitbox, we learned that Sus4chord w: our pinky on string one at fret 3 when playin' a D chord as well as learnin' a barred A chord on fret 2 w: the middle finger on string 2 at fret 3
which on E9 is equivalent to using the B pedal as Mike P mentions
or on C6 w: the lever that raise the As to Bb
i prefer the 11th chord havin' first noticed it among black musicians: gospel, motown - a lot of those tunes end w: an 11th when playin' the 5 chord
both these chords Sus4 & 11th are great cause they make for a lot of space & time - even tho' they call for a resolve, there's no rush - you can just let them hang & wait
like when the preacher says : "take the time "
Al Jarreau's " does any body wanna dance up on the roof " has 11th chords goin' back to the 1 all over it
" Callin' Elvis " by Dire straits uses them too
it's a natural on E9 : key of B raising & lowering string 4 ( & 8 )
Last edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 18 Sep 2010 10:07 am; edited 3 times in total |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 18 Sep 2010 10:04 am
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Jerry O is the only one who has mentioned the sus2. I was starting to wonder what happened to it. If the music says Csus, does that always mean a sus4? The sus2 is the reason I lower my 6th string a whole tone. With a grip consisting of strings 5, 6, and 8, you have the sus4 with the B pedal, the major chord, with no pedals, and the sus2 with the knee lower. It's a simple, but fluid, and pleasant-sounding movement.
C sus2=C, D, G
So, again, does Csus always mean Csus4? |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 18 Sep 2010 10:45 am
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| If it's not implied, it's usually considered to be a Sus4 |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 18 Sep 2010 11:13 am
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b0b presents some good logic here so I would only add some insight on ways to use suspended chords as substitutions without sounding like clams.
I have found that if you arpeggio the chord in triplets and move from suspended2 to major to suspended 4 to major you can use this about any time as a substitution for a dominate chord. You will only interject a slight tension but the trade off is that you will get noticed. This only works well if the whole band doesnβt get the idea that it is cool and decides to go with you. Too much of a good thing or bad thing.
Also I have found that a sus2 as the tonic works well (although Iβm not sure it is technically correct since I also included the 3rd).
Here is an example. This is one of my favorite licks using this approach.
If you want to be a little more subtle use this
Last edited by Bo Legg on 18 Sep 2010 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 18 Sep 2010 11:15 am
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| John Billings wrote: |
| Jerry O is the only one who has mentioned the sus2. I was starting to wonder what happened to it. If the music says Csus, does that always mean a sus4? |
Yes, sus implies sus4 by default. The sus2 is usually called an add9, as there's no harm in including the 3rd.
_________________
-πππ- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 18 Sep 2010 12:25 pm
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| The sus2 and sus4 chords are both major and minor. A Csus4 is also an Fsus2 and a G7sus4 or an Abmaj13 or a C#maj7b5 or will it never end? |
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