A Beginner's Perspective

David Beckner · From: Kentucky, USA

I am writing this thread because I have seen way too many people giving advice to beginners who get no where...
6 Months ago I started on my journey of learning pedal steel guitar after playing 6 string and teaching for over 20 years..The first thing I done was to ask opinions of which instructional materials to buy..Like most I became entranced by those who said you have to buy this one and that .After spending about $500 and getting more confused everyday I decided to stop and take a look at what I was doing a little closer..Most materials teach the same methods over and over and take you to a certain level only to leave you either hanging or leaving you more confused than you were to begin with.
Thats when I made a complete about face and set off on my own ..I got rid of all the Newman .Bouton and other unneccesary expensive stuff and found a chord chart.After learning all the chords and what the pedals did and how to combinne levers and pedals I started relying on my ears to find little fills and licks to songs that I wanted to learn NOT what somebody else wanted me to..I contacted those on the forum like Mike Archer,Tony Prior,Joe Barcus .William littaker- just to name a few and ordereed their material at about half the cost of those other Big Shots..
Now 6 months down the road I am comfortably making the transition to playing steel with my band and although I miss the money I spent needlessly I am living every minute of playing.
I was asked the other day by a friend what advice I would give to some one learning to play..My answer was simple and as honest as I could be " when you see a high priced material like Newman and others - RUN..learn from those who really care about how you make it instead of how much money they can make from you.Take advantage of all the free stuff and use it to your advantage..Ask questions of peoplke like Paul Franklin's and Reese Anderson's of this world..You may not like the answers but it never costs.Lastly - Dont become an idol worshipper - there are no 2 players who play alike and no matter how hard you try you will never copy them.
_________________
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WALKER SEAT
NASHVILLE 400
BEHRINGER RACK TUNER
CUSH CASE RACK
PEAVEY DELTA FEX
PARTS CASTER.Gospel and Classic Country Music
http://www.dbupholstery.yolasite.com

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

That's one point of view...

There are a lot of little golden nuggets to be found in any instruction material, your mileage may vary. I would never in a hunnert years found where John Hughey started the intro to "Look at Us".

Finding stuff by accident is a long process, longer than a lifetime. Don't regret the $$$ you spent, put the material away and come back to it later. There will come a day when it will be meaningful, perhaps after you've experienced a few more "AHA!" moments.
_________________
Lawyers are done: Emmons SD-10, 3 Dekleys including a D10, NV400, and lots of effects units to cover my clams...

Craig Schwartz · From: McHenry IL

Hey whats left of your Jeffran collection that you`d like to sell, I know its not for everyone but it put me 10 years ahead of schedule within 12 months, for me it was priceless, you wont be sorry when it comes time to selling his stuff, In fact ,if I aint got it I`ll give you half price for that stuff right now ...
What do ya got ?
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SO MANY LURES, SO LITTLE TIME....

David Beckner · From: Kentucky, USA

Craig, Thanks for the offer .I got rid of all of the stuff I didnt want to keep..Took a big loss ..Wish I knew then what I know now moment.
_________________
WILCOX SD10 (love the white mica)
WALKER SEAT
NASHVILLE 400
BEHRINGER RACK TUNER
CUSH CASE RACK
PEAVEY DELTA FEX
PARTS CASTER.Gospel and Classic Country Music
http://www.dbupholstery.yolasite.com

Joshua Grange · From: Los Angeles, California

Yep, one persons point of view. Not advice I'd give to a beginner, but if it works for you David then congratulations on finding your system.

Just because material is high priced doesn't mean you should run. There are always little nuggets of information to be discovered in ANY instruction, even if it's only to make clear in your mind some of the things you want to avoid. I've seen and paid for my share of instructional material that was not very good, but you know, I've still learned something from ALL of them.
I understand money may be tight, but for some the thought of spending $100 or more is not a big deal when the possibility of learning something new exists.

Personally I think there is no better way to learn than to listen to music you like, try your best to learn it by ear, then enlist a knowledgable teacher to help you better decode what exactly is going on with the music. That said, I've had a lot of great, great discoveries using printed materials, specifically the Winnie Winston/Bill Keith book and the Buddy Emmons series.

No one can argue that it takes discipline and hard work to get where you want to be as a player, and ultimately there are no shortcuts as far as that is concerned. However with the right instruction you can be a bit farther down the road in a shorter time-frame. And it doesn't always have to cost money either...!

IMO of course of course.

David Beckner · From: Kentucky, USA

Let me clarify that in no way did I mean to start a war over who had the best for the price..Maybe I should have said that this is a way to learn on a tight budget .or maybe how not to get caught up in other's opinions of what they need to learn..True there are many good materials at different prices.If it works for you keep up ..If it is not working for you or the budget is putting a hold on your learning there are other great alternatives out there.
_________________
WILCOX SD10 (love the white mica)
WALKER SEAT
NASHVILLE 400
BEHRINGER RACK TUNER
CUSH CASE RACK
PEAVEY DELTA FEX
PARTS CASTER.Gospel and Classic Country Music
http://www.dbupholstery.yolasite.com

Doug Earnest · From: Branson, MO USA

A lot of it depends on your own starting point. With twenty years experience on guitar under your belt you don't need everything included in courses targeted for a rank beginner.
Things are much different today than they were even ten years ago before the internet began to provide sharing of knowledge between individuals, much to the disdain of professional teachers I would imagine.
Find what works for you and make the best of it!

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

Let me add that it's fun to play along with recordings, trying to find the elusive scheme that an artist used to create a note/chord sequence that half twists your ear off with appreciation. It's also a great way to try new leaps from "here" to "there. But it's fraught with getting lost in the ozones (then blindly trying to get back where the band is). I try not to "go down new roads" when playing with bandmates. But, in the studio, it's a blast.
_________________
Lawyers are done: Emmons SD-10, 3 Dekleys including a D10, NV400, and lots of effects units to cover my clams...

David Beckner · From: Kentucky, USA

Ray I agree 100% it is fun to try and figure out the 'How did they do it'...What I was referring to is something I have noticed as a teacher and I have also seen it in threads here as well...Someone will say I cant sound like Mr.Jones..And the truth is you will not sound like him simply because your touch and his are two seperate things..I cant play like you and you cant play like me..Even if we are playing the same guitar we each have a seperate way of picking.bar control etc. etc. I have had students who dont understand why they spend all their money on gadgets and gizmos to sound like Waylon Jennings or Brad Paisley and cant do it.They just dont understand that no two people sound alike.
_________________
WILCOX SD10 (love the white mica)
WALKER SEAT
NASHVILLE 400
BEHRINGER RACK TUNER
CUSH CASE RACK
PEAVEY DELTA FEX
PARTS CASTER.Gospel and Classic Country Music
http://www.dbupholstery.yolasite.com

Clete Ritta · From: San Antonio, Texas

mtulbert · From: Plano, Texas 75023

In defense of Jeff's material; not only did he show you various songs and licks. but also explained in very easy terms the theory behind it. He really got me to think about how licks and runs are put together rather than just show and do.

Mickey's book does the same thing with a little more emphasis on theory.

Once you have mastered your way around the steel you become a player and not just a copy cat. That was a goal that I try to achieve. Not sure if I am there yet but getting closer. IMHO if the instruction books you buy make you a better steel player then they are priceless and what you paid for them becomes insignificant.

Wherever you feel you get the most benefit is the way you need to go.
_________________
Mark T

Infinity D-10 Justice SD-10 Judge Revelation Octal Preamp, Fractal AXE III, Fender FRFR 12

Mickey Adams · From: Bandera Texas

Just by chance did the Chord Chart you use, and got for free come from Patricia Warnock.?...Its a very good one...The information came from ME...and the graphics were painstakingly composed with a 3600.00 piece of graphic software...I was also the one that convinced her that the right thing to do was to give it away freely...It is also included in my beginners guide..
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David Beckner · From: Kentucky, USA

Mickey
Yes I did get one of the chord charts from Patricia.It is very helpful and you yourself should be congradulated on the effort put forth in producing this..I also bought one from Mel Bay that has a progression chart in it as well.There is no doubt in my mind that a chord chart is a very productive tool in the learning proccess as that it also trains the ears as well.
_________________
WILCOX SD10 (love the white mica)
WALKER SEAT
NASHVILLE 400
BEHRINGER RACK TUNER
CUSH CASE RACK
PEAVEY DELTA FEX
PARTS CASTER.Gospel and Classic Country Music
http://www.dbupholstery.yolasite.com

Bob Blair · From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

David did you teach for free? Mickey and Patricia have done some great stuff for everyone at no charge, and that is of course great. But no one is getting rich off steel guitar instructional material, and to disrespect people who charge for their product (and a huge amount of work goes into the creation of that instructional material) as I perceive you to be doing is just plain wrong. You did not, as you state, take a "big loss" on the material you resold - you took and presumably retained what you were able to learn from it, (which I gather from what you say may be less than many others have been able to learn from it, and that is too bad but is hardly the fault of the authors). It's great that you have found ways to learn that suit you, but the list of people who have learned a lot from the material you are putting down is long and distinguished.

David Beckner · From: Kentucky, USA

Bob
I am sorry if you took my post as being disrespectful as was clearly not the intended case..I give kudos to Jeff ,He paved the way for many a great player and also done many first and unheard of thing to contribute..But Jeff is no longer with us and there are many out there who have taken the foundation that has been laid and built around that who do not get the just recognition that they deserve..How many times have you seen a post where some one like a Reese Anderson or Bobbe Seymore or other great has been put in the spotlight for their contributions.. Hardly Ever
To answer your question about my teaching..I have taught for free and I have also charged for my lessons.
_________________
WILCOX SD10 (love the white mica)
WALKER SEAT
NASHVILLE 400
BEHRINGER RACK TUNER
CUSH CASE RACK
PEAVEY DELTA FEX
PARTS CASTER.Gospel and Classic Country Music
http://www.dbupholstery.yolasite.com

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

I am grateful anyone bothers to put forth the effort to make instructional material at all. It sounds kinda thankless and hard to profit from.

Hats off and my thanks to the instructors.

Robert Harper · From: Alabama, USA

There are enough people on here no mater what you say there is someone to feel disrespected
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"Oh what a tangled web we weave when we first begin to deceive" Someone Famous

Rick Winfield · From: Pickin' beneath the Palmettos

Playing ia a band 6 months later ! Congrats.
You will learn more with your ears, and your band, than you would in 6 years of studying method books.
I would tell a beginner to get one book.
Winie Winston shows you all you need to basically know, and the rest is yours, to develop, and grow with. The Forum is a great resource, but nothing can replace playing with other musicians. Your $500 will come back soon
Good luck
Rick

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

I think there is a certain level of frustration for beginners that lead some to a defiant or contrary atttitude. "I'll show them" or "they think they know it all" kind of thing. it can seem like everyone is against you or trying to take advantage of your newbishness. Theres a tendancy to give harsh critique to nearly everything, partly in the hopes of getting a reaction from the old guard. Ive seen it several times and I felt a little of that in the beginning myself and threw out a few uncalled for barbs in frustration. in time you come to realize and accept that experienced players DO know more than you and that they sometimes tell you unpleasant things or things you dont agree with because they've had the experience you have not. in time you learn to listen. You still judge for yourself and dont take anyones word blindly, but you listen openly and give those opinions weight because youve seen the benefit of that wisdon and experience work for you.

personally, Newmans stuff was priced prohibitvely for me. It may be awesome stuff weill worth the money, but its too expensive for me personally to take that chance on. To each their own, we all learn differently it seems.

Boutons dvd is under $20. I think the most ive spent on a single peice of instructional material is $100 and that seemed like alot and still does kind of. Ive spent more on lessons and seminars, worth every penny and then some.

whatever....

Barry Hyman · From: upstate New York, USA

Interesting post. You can make money from instruction and instructional materials, even if you don't charge very much.

I charge $30 an hour for private lessons, which is cheap (my peers charge $30 to $45 for a HALF hour!) because I don't want to be teaching rich kids only. But I still make a decent living, support my wife, pay the mortgage, and have enough left over to drink good wine and go out to a nice restaurant now and then. Part of the trick is word-of-mouth -- I still live near where I grew up, and have taught maybe 500 people and played maybe a thousand gigs around here, so I get plenty of students without advertising. But it took years to build up the business.

I also wrote and self-published a big (330 pages, for $25) guitar manual and have made maybe $5000 profit selling copies over the years. Nothing I could live on -- maybe $500 a year -- but definitely a profit, not a loss. So it is possible to make money from instructional materials without them being pricey.
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I give music lessons on several different instruments in Cambridge, NY (between Bennington, VT and Albany, NY). But my true love is pedal steel. I've been obsessed with steel since 1972; don't know anything I'd rather talk about... www.barryhyman.com

Christopher Woitach · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Geez, man, you'd think that after 20 years in the biz you wouldn't have such a chip on your shoulder about what instruction costs! I've taught and played professionally for nearly 30 years, and I still spend money on anything that will help me grow musically, whether for pedal steel, which is new to me, or jazz guitar, which is not. I traveled to Dallas to take an 8 hour lesson with Reece Anderson, and have plans to do so again, as often as I can afford. I have bought more guitar and general music books than I can count, given many away to students, and bought them again.

As a teacher, I expect to be paid. As a student, I expect to pay. Since I'm a professional musician, I take it off on my taxes. I'm not particularly well off, make a decent living, but one thing I never begrudge is money spent on the tools of my work and great love, music.

If one of my students falls on hard times, I teach them for free, if they need it, so I get the concept of helping others without expecting to be paid. There is tons and tons of free educational material of all kinds on this forum (bless you, Mickey Adams, Reece, Paul Franklin, and everyone else!), but there's tons of other stuff that costs - why would anyone limit themselves?

I don't care if someone buys instructional material or not - not my problem - but to crap all over the hard work these fabulous musician/teachers have done, calling them out by name, and then backing away saying "I didn't mean to be disrespectful" is not the behavior of a grown up, not to mention a pro musician.
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com

Bob Simons · From: Kansas City, Mo, USA

It seems to me that a large part of your frustration is the manner in which steel guitar is typically taught. I benefited greatly from a few simple Newman videos when I started, but the bulk of the instructional material was step-by-step how to move your fingers to reproduce some forgotten lick on some crummy nearly forgotten song. [And all with TAB unaugmented by sensible sheet music that includes at least TIMING for heaven's sake!]

Occasionally it is interesting to see how someone did something, but it is usually presented in such a mechanical manner that it is difficult to discover the the thinking and strategy behind the playing. For instance I'd be happy just to see the chord forms that passages are derived from not just the note or arpeggio being sounded...

I took classical piano for a decade as a kid and was taught only how to move my fingers on selected works of the past. It was the most regrettable and uncreative waste of time of my life!
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Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

David Beckner · From: Kentucky, USA

It always amazes me at the people who start throwing up disrespect or trying to flame a thread are always the same people..You moan about how you struggle to play and get no where.Do you ever wonder why??? Most are idol worshippers who believe if you do not have a big name and a price tag then you are no good as a teacher..The other s are gear heads who think buying every gadget and gizmo will make you a better player..Abosulte B.S. on both spectrums..
I personally will stand up for the little man any day of the week...Mike Archer,Tony Prior and the list goes on are great players and deservr recognition..It seems Mickey Adams is King Of The Hill in that regard..Mickey is good and I give him props but what about the others?
_________________
WILCOX SD10 (love the white mica)
WALKER SEAT
NASHVILLE 400
BEHRINGER RACK TUNER
CUSH CASE RACK
PEAVEY DELTA FEX
PARTS CASTER.Gospel and Classic Country Music
http://www.dbupholstery.yolasite.com

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